Honda Twins banner

Do I have a bad generator?

2.1K views 4 replies 5 participants last post by  crazypj  
#1 ·
I am not real savvy on electrical stuff, but trying to learn. Thanks for any advice
1973 Honda CB 350 G Ser# CB350-5021074 Most everything on bike is original.
7900 miles on bike

I think my Charging system is not putting out quite enough voltage to keep battery up. The bike is well tuned and running great.

BUT, Yesterday I rode the bike for about 2 hours at mostly slow speed practicing sharp u turns. The bike stalled at one point and didn't have enough juice to turn the starter. I understand this Honda doesn't charge battery until 3000rpm or so. I was happy to get it cranked using the kick starter and went straight home. I had only 11.43 volts across battery terminals.

I charged the battery with my automatic 1.5 amp charger. The battery got up to over 1300v but dropped to 12.94 overnight.

Today I rode the bike for 1 hour with headlight on. I kept the rpm 3500 or higher ~90% of the time.
I started the ride with 12.73 volts on the battery everything off. When I finished the ride, the voltage across the battery terminals with everything off had dropped to 12.48. I cranked the bike again after measuring the 12.48 battery voltage everything off. The voltage at idle 1200-1300 rpm all lights off was 12.26. I revved to 4000 rpm and the voltage only rose to 12.38.

The battery is new and will accept and hold a charge of at least 12.73v sitting without use.

Something must be wrong somewhere in the charging system. I have read that at ~3500rpm the battery should be receiving about a 14v charge. I have the original silinumen rectifier and the original regulator, but I thought best to start a check with the generator. I checked the generator IAW posts I found on this board to the best of my ability..

I unplugged the generator from the harness. I have 4 wires, yellow, pink, green and red with a yellow or white stripe. The red/stripe wire was covered with a black insulating substance. I think this is the wire for the neutral switch

I checked AC voltage: Pink-Yellow and got 18VAC @ 1200 idle rpm, 30VAC @ 2200 RPM, 50VAC @ 4000rpm
Pink-Green and got !6VAC @1200 idle rpm, 30VAC @ 2500 RPM, 50VAC @ 4000rpm

I plugged the generator back into the harness, cranked the bike, at idle 1200rpm I had 12.34v, @ 4000rpm only rose to 12.45v.

Unplugged the harness again and checked ohms: Pink-Yellow 1.2 ohm
Pink-Green 1.4 ohm
Yellow-Green 0.0 ohm

I have not yet found instructions that I can understand on how to check the rectifier and the regulator.

I would appreciate advice on whether or not my generator is functioning properly based on what I did and I will deal with rectifier and regulator later.

Thanks
Winston
 

Attachments

#3 · (Edited)
Winston.....
The wires from the alternator on your bike are a Pink wire, a Yellow wire, and a White wire......
Your white wire was likely stained by color transfer from the neutral switch wire (which is a Green with a Red stripe wire)......
Regardless of apparent colors, your readings of output AC Voltages are within normal parameters for a good stator.....
IF NONE of those first three wires shows continuity to engine case ground (the winding core), your alternator is fine.....

Despite what it reads after charging, ANY 12V battery that reads below 12.0 VDC at any time when just sitting is BAD/damaged/dead.....
Standing voltage should be 12.6 to 12.7 volts after charging and sitting overnight.....NEW does NOT always mean good....
A 1.5 amp charger is EXCESSIVE for use on a 12 ah battery and WILL eventually damage it if it hasn't done so already....
Correct charging rate MUST not exceed 10% of the battery's ah rating.....I recommend a 24 hour charging at 0.5 amps yielding the full 12ah charge....
A "low and slow" charging rate will greatly improve the battery's lifespan.....

The primary suspect in your charging problem is the rectifier.....
Those old Selenium versions (red or orange finned) are notorious for failures, and we usually recommend a modern Silicon replacement.....
Testing is easy: Any/All possible pairs of wires MUST show continuity in only one direction....
Any pair that also shows continuity with the meter probes reversed or shows an open circuit at any time indicates a bad rectifier (bad diode)....

IF you have any doubts, I recommend a modern rectifier/regulator combination which also will eliminate any uncertainty about the original regulator (which can only be tested in use)....
Many here have used the combination unit available from Matt, aka Sonrier, (and a member here) through Sparckmoto with excellent result.......

Any questions: phone me....************....Steve
 
#4 ·
To add to Steve's post, the alternator does not charge the battery at 3000 RPM, it breaks even or a just a little better....The alternator actively charges the battery around 5000 RPM, with max charging around 10000 RPM....Below 3000 RPM, and especially at idle, the battery is supplying the voltage needed to run. Long periods at low RPM cause the battery to be depleted, as you learned.

Also to add, Sonreir, at Sparck Moto has a nice regulator/rectifier combo unit that works very well...Because it has a lower internal resistance then the OEM rectifier, is actually increases the current available a little below 3000. My CB360 breaks even around 2200 RPM, so I am charging better...Sparckmoto's R/R also regulates better so you don't overcharge the battery. Overcharging boils out the electrolyte, also shortening the battery life.

One traverse below 12V on a lead acid battery will shorten the life of the battery a little, but as Steve said, a low, slow charge is the way to get it back to near full capacity. If you look at Amazon.com, they have a Battery Tender Jr, which is 0.85 A max, but is smart, and can be left on the battery whenever you are not riding. Lead Acid batteries last longest when kept at full charge...Other battery chemistry's are different....My CB750 battery is on a Battery Tender whenever the bike is parked. The battery right now is 7 years old, My CB360 battry is 3 years old, still going strong.

Keep the battery charged, and electrolyte level good (only refill with distilled water) and your batteries will last a lot longer than most.
 
#5 ·
Modern regulator rectifier combo unit will greatly improve low speed charging.
I wired Suzuki rectifier directly to alternator outputs and get break even at idle
Image

I can't find the pic of ammeter showing slight charge at idle