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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I originally started this as a response to another members question but have decided it's not correct to hijack a members thread.

Also I had a hard time deciding whether to place this in the Misc or the Frame section. Obviously I went with Frame as it seemed logical but it's OK to move it if it should be elsewhere.

There have been questions about what to do with the VIN PLATE when you do a Re-paint or Powder Coat a Frame.

The options are:

1 - Nothing
2 - Tape it some how
3 - Remove it.

Option #1 Not Good it is either destroyed byPpainting or Powder Coating over it
Option #2 TAPE - maybe it works but leaves the area under it questionable
Option #3 How do we Replace it when e're done?

The original VIN Plates are attached with special rivets that have a very coarse thread. They are Pressed - or Hammered into place and the coarse thread locks them in place.I worked for an equipment Mfg and this is how we attached all the S/N Plate to machines.

Here is a source for those rivets.

http://www.rivetsonline.com/drive-screw ... crews.html

Using these will allow you to remove the VIN Plate which MUST be done carefully and slowly to prevent damage - then re-attach it in a permanant and factory manner.

To remove the OLD VIN PLATE - carefully center punch the old rivot. And use a PIN VISE hand drill to remove the old head. PIN VISE Hand drills are cheap and can be picked up at a hobby shop. You can get much smaller diameter drill bits and move up thru the size until you just remove the head.

NOTE: Using the standard smallest size drill that comes with most kits - 1/16" and a cordless hand drill you will most likey miss the center and mess up your vin plate. Get a PIN Vise and work your way up in size from small to where the head just spins off free.

Once the head has been removed use a heat gun or hair dryer to heat up the adhesive on theback side of the plate so it can be removed. Silp a putty knife or similar thin balde under as you go until it comes off.

PIC's:
- - - -

I apoligize in advance for the 1st pic' being so out of focus I didn't realize how bad it was or I would have taken a second one.

The 1st shows the VIN Plate still attached but with the Rivot Head drilled off and sitting in the top left corner of the Pic Next to the VIN PLATE.


[attachment=4:2s2c1xtg]DSC05830.JPG[/attachment:2s2c1xtg]

This shot shows the ORIGINAL Hammer Screws (after removal) that are used to attach the VIN Plate

I would suggest you CLICK on this file and open it to a full size pic so you can see the threads on the Screws. This is the pieice that was left after I drilled off the head I just punched it thru the head tube.


[attachment=3:2s2c1xtg]DSC05833 (2).JPG[/attachment:2s2c1xtg]

My Digital Caliper mic's this out as 1.62mm or .064"

http://www.rivetsonline.com/18-8-stainl ... x-1-4.html

This link will take you to the #0 x 1/4" size which is .75" Diameter.
It's "VERY" Slightly .009 larger than the original and will require you to drill the original hole out to .067".
That is so small a difference - it's almost who cares.

This is a pic of the PIN Vise I used to drill off the Rivot Head. They can be picked up at Home Depot or a Hobby Shop. The one I have came with an assortment of Very Small Drill Bits in the Barrel.

[attachment=2:2s2c1xtg]DSC05835.JPG[/attachment:2s2c1xtg]
[attachment=1:2s2c1xtg]DSC05834.JPG[/attachment:2s2c1xtg]

Since I'm going to be doing this for my bike and they only sell them in a box of 100 for $14.00 I'll have lots of spares.

- - - - - - -

If you read the original Posting you'll notice a couple of edits.

1 - I went with the 1/4" Lenght over the 3/16"
There's lots of room inside the Head Tube before anything is going to touch the Steering Tube. The extra length will allow me to get a grip on the Drive Screw with a pair of Tweezers to hold it when I go to Hammer it into place.

2 - I Discovered when ordering them they were available in both Steel and Stainless Steel for $2.00 extra I went with the Stainless Steel.


If anyone wants them once I get them (I plan to order them today) send me a PM and I'll get you details.

Basically - If you send me a SASE (Self Addressed STAMPED Envelope & a Dollar) I'll send you (5) untill I run out. That recoups some of my cost & efforts.

If you do the math:

Drive Screws $14.00 / per 100
Shipping $9.00
Total = $23.00

If I sold every one I'd make $2.00 but as I intend to keep (10) - I'll come up a little short but I hope this helps other complete their project.


ORDERED and RECEIVED:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
They are in I received my package in yesterdays mail - WOW Quick Response from the Vendor.

Here's what they look like:
[attachment=0:2s2c1xtg]DSC05839.JPG[/attachment:2s2c1xtg]

THE CATCH:
I'm going to add one catch to the purchase.
If you buy them & use them & like them make a $5.00 Donation to the site.


I expect my frame will be finished by the powder coater next week but I won't be able to pick it up until the following week due to commitments. I'll post Pic's of the Re-Attach after I pick it up.
 

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Re: VIN Plate - Remove - Replace for Painting or Powder Coat

My tag was just fine after a powdercoat.. I'm not sure what the guy used to cover it (tape of some sort).



But, nice guide either way!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: VIN Plate - Remove - Replace for Painting or Powder Coat

So here's the end of the process.

It's a little anti-climatic as the frame is all clean and fresh from the powder coater, and the process is very simple.

Here's some pic's of how it went.

1st the Required .067" or #51 Drill bit in a Pin Vise with the new Stainless Steel Hammer Drive Screws.
[attachment=2:1mipakqb]DSC05873.JPG[/attachment:1mipakqb]

Next this is the adhesive I used to replace the glue it's just a basic rubber type contact glue. Apply to both surfaces with a thin coating allow to dry for 3-5 minutes and it's ready to go.
[attachment=1:1mipakqb]DSC05875.JPG[/attachment:1mipakqb]
[I suggest inserting the new rivets into the holes of the VIN Plate and keeping it off the frame until you align the rivets with the holes then just press into place.


This is a pic of the new Rivet half hammered into place.
[attachment=0:1mipakqb]DSC05877.JPG[/attachment:1mipakqb]


And here is the finished product. Clean installation of the VIN Plate re-attached in a factory manner.
[attachment=3:1mipakqb]DSC05878.JPG[/attachment:1mipakqb]

When you are finished any excess adhesive can be cleaned away with a little thinner or other solvent.
 

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Re: VIN Plate - Remove - Replace for Painting or Powder Coat

Hi 'Yendor",
I recall communicating with you before...about the PAMCO ignition I believe, maybe something else?
Anyway, I appreciate your write up on the VIN tag removal. I will be facing this soon on three of my bikes and its been on the back of my mind how to get the tags off without damage.
Did the new rivets go in easily after drilling out the holes, or was there a tendency for them to want to collapse when tapping them in?
If you have some spares available I will be happy to buy enough to do all three of my bikes. Just tell me where to mail the SASE and money.
Thanks again, Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: VIN Plate - Remove - Replace for Painting or Powder Coat

Sent you a reply - they go real nice "IF" you take your time removing the old rivit head and drill the correct size hole.

You are more likely to drop one and never find it then bend or damage one. They are very tiny. But the Stainless Steel ones are also very strong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
An UPDATE: on this post. - I still have plenty of these Rivets to go around

The original Deal I posted was send me a SASE & & $2.00 then make a donation to the site.

Since the site is now funded by the Sponsors and I still have plenty just PM me and I'll shoot you back an address send me an SASE.

No Money required you just provide the envelope and postage.
The offer is good until I run out.
 

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I have been in touch with Yendor recently and he says he has more of the rivets.

I think he travels a fair bit for work, but he did receive my SASE & two bucks.

You could try sending him a PM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sent PM's back and marhal yours are on their way.

Don't forget to post pic's for us.
 

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I received my package from Yendor last week, and I have to say that in my opinion he has produced an excellent and comprehensive solution to the VIN plate issue for those who are refinishing their frame.

The package I received contains five of the rivets themselves (boy, they are tiny!) plus instructions and tips (with colour photos) in addition to what is covered by this thread.

Thank you, Yendor, for providing HondaTwins members with this excellent how-to guide as well as offering to provide the rivets themselves.

I will be making a donation to the site in recognition of this and all the other excellent information and advice I have benefited from here.

Now if the rain would just let up.....

Mark
Vancouver, BC
 

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just looking at your thread on vin plates, I have a Honda CB 350G and the vin plate is damaged, could you tell anyone who could produce me a copy of my one. Hope you can help, Bazzer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There was an EBAY Guy who did some repro stuff.
You would send him the data and he would print it..

But they were done on Mylar Not Metal.

I think the idea was you would place it on a piece of Aluminum Flashing then rivet it in place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
To All - Yes I still have Vin Rivets to spare.

Send me a PM and we'll get you fixed up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
** UPDATE **
------------------

The Rivet supply has finally come to an end.
I am now down to my last (5) and I'll be keeping those for future projects.

However, don't despair there are sources out there to purchase them. (See the embedded link in a previous posting)

And if you find you can only buy them in a lot of (100) like I did. (that was only something like $10 with shipping)

You too can become the next source of rivets for the forum.
 

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Thanks to Yendor for this write-up, very helpful when I removed my VIN plate for powdercoat last month. One additional point in case it's useful to anyone is if the VIN plate is still stuck on with adhesive after drilling out the drive screws, warm it with a heat gun then use dental floss behind the plate to remove it (I always found the cheap waxed string type of floss works best).

Anyway, as I came late to this party and Yendor was already out of drive screws, I picked some up from McMaster-Carr and now humbly offer my services to the forum as a supplier of said fasteners :)

I ended up getting a bag of #0 (https://www.mcmaster.com/#91654A055) and a bag of #2 (https://www.mcmaster.com/#91654A077) 1/4" SS drive screws. I used 2 of the latter on my bike, so I've got plenty of both left and can share them with the forum - send me a PM and I'll give you my address for the SASE. Let me know which size you need and I will put some in the mail back to you.

Hope this helps someone out with their project!
 

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Actually, the Honda factory used 3mm self-tapping nails to attach the 1969 and later US Federal VIN plates into predrilled holes on the right stem, not rivets. These were steel nails, not stainless, if you want to be technically correct. However, the method you describe does work. There is an eBay seller who shows up occasionally from Sweden, who accurately reproduces the black printed thin aluminum plates with back adhesive using your specified production date and VIN with embossed raised lettering, for $30.
 
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