Swingarm Notes - Important !!
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I'm sorry to "muck up" your thread here Bill, but it raises certain questions for me. I have a K7 model as you know. Manufacture date of 6/74. My swingarm bushings are a ferrous metal. Steel or similar. In your post you mention something of plastic being used in these models?
Thoughts?
GB :mrgreen:
Thoughts?
GB :mrgreen:
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Another quick observation here. My parts fiche shows different part numbers than you've posted. I'm not doubting you, so please don't take any of this personally. Just trying, for myself and others, to clarify this a little.
My fiche shows the following:
K6 part# 52108-333-003
K7 part# 52108-457-300
It also shows the K3 - K7 models using "Bush, RR. Swingarm Pivot Thrust #52109-283-300
Am I just brain dead after waking up late, or dyslexic today? :lol:
GB :mrgreen:
My fiche shows the following:
K6 part# 52108-333-003
K7 part# 52108-457-300
It also shows the K3 - K7 models using "Bush, RR. Swingarm Pivot Thrust #52109-283-300
Am I just brain dead after waking up late, or dyslexic today? :lol:
GB :mrgreen:
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Could Honda make it any more simple than it is? :lol:
My swingarm only has a metal "cup" with a built in seal it appears. Then the flanged bushing in the swingarm itself. I seem to remember removing the old torn felt grease rings but must've thrown them away. I do have a bag of new ones though. Now if I can remember where they go? :lol: :roll:
GB :mrgreen:
My swingarm only has a metal "cup" with a built in seal it appears. Then the flanged bushing in the swingarm itself. I seem to remember removing the old torn felt grease rings but must've thrown them away. I do have a bag of new ones though. Now if I can remember where they go? :lol: :roll:
GB :mrgreen:
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It seems my swingarm bushing were replaced at one time, with the plastic ones. Apparently I had a very strong magnet..
I just confirmed this, by destroying them. :|
I'm trying to look on the bright side though. I've got a decent set of Koni's coming in the mail. I'll evaluate them on needing rebuilt upon arrival. For $49.95 I could'nt pass them up though, and they're not leaking, so....
GB :mrgreen:
I just confirmed this, by destroying them. :|
I'm trying to look on the bright side though. I've got a decent set of Koni's coming in the mail. I'll evaluate them on needing rebuilt upon arrival. For $49.95 I could'nt pass them up though, and they're not leaking, so....
GB :mrgreen:
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The other set of Koni's were on Ebay and got bid up over $180.00 They were in the same shape as the set I bought (used), so that makes me feel better about paying $50 plus shipping for my set.
I already bought the older style metal bushings last night, part #52108-300-300. They're the non-flanged type though. I still have to get the fiber flanged washers I believe. I found them on Ebay but they're robbing people blind with them. $9.99 a piece plus shipping!!! :shock: I'll keep looking for those I think... Maybe call Honda?
P.S. Bill, I want you to feel free to delete any of these posts in this thread. I won't be offended in any way. It started as YOUR VERY INFORMATIVE swingarm thread, and I kinda took it to troubleshooting and general chit chat... :lol: Prune away as the old timers say!!!! :lol:
GB :mrgreen:
I already bought the older style metal bushings last night, part #52108-300-300. They're the non-flanged type though. I still have to get the fiber flanged washers I believe. I found them on Ebay but they're robbing people blind with them. $9.99 a piece plus shipping!!! :shock:
I'll keep looking for those I think... Maybe call Honda?P.S. Bill, I want you to feel free to delete any of these posts in this thread. I won't be offended in any way. It started as YOUR VERY INFORMATIVE swingarm thread, and I kinda took it to troubleshooting and general chit chat... :lol: Prune away as the old timers say!!!! :lol:
GB :mrgreen:
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Ok. That's cool too. I suppose this could be the 450 swingarm question and answer thread? Plus there's still all of that good interchangeablility information and part numbers on the first page..
GB :mrgreen:
GB :mrgreen:
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125 Posts
The mailman just dropped these off. Thanks for finding them Bill.
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How tightly do the bushing fit into the swingarm? Should they need to be pressed or hammered into the arm? And what about the relationship between the bushing and the inner tube? Tight or loose? As I said, my machinist buddy removed them and I didn't see how it all fits together.
The bronze bushings seem to measure the same sizes as the plastic ones that were removed except that they are about an 1/8" longer.
The bronze bushings seem to measure the same sizes as the plastic ones that were removed except that they are about an 1/8" longer.
Wow, great post!
So glad I stumbled upon this, I'll definitely be checking the swingarm in my K4.
Are there any other problems that the 450 is known for?
I plan on selling the bike shortly after I'm finished with the build.
I don't want to sell anything to anyone that would possibly put their life in danger.
This is my first build, so I want to make sure that I'm doing everything correctly and as
safe as possible.
Brad
So glad I stumbled upon this, I'll definitely be checking the swingarm in my K4.
Are there any other problems that the 450 is known for?
I plan on selling the bike shortly after I'm finished with the build.
I don't want to sell anything to anyone that would possibly put their life in danger.
This is my first build, so I want to make sure that I'm doing everything correctly and as
safe as possible.
Brad
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125 Posts
Bill,
What do you mean about making sure the collar fits in the bushings first? What about those little felt washers. How do they go on?
What do you mean about making sure the collar fits in the bushings first? What about those little felt washers. How do they go on?
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Okay, I checked the end caps and they fit snuggly on the bushings.
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As I said, my machinist took the swingarm apart and I'm a bit confused on what goes where in the re-assembly. In this pic, how do 11, 13 and 14 relate to each other? Why are there two 13's that don't look alike? Can you give me the order of assembly?
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Bill,
I'm going to re-assemble my swingarm this evening. Am I correct in assuming that the collars on my bronze bushings will eliminate the need for the felt and fiber washers? I will be placing the end caps (#13) directly onto the bushings. Is this correct?
Also, do you happen to know what the torque specs are on the bolt?
I'm going to re-assemble my swingarm this evening. Am I correct in assuming that the collars on my bronze bushings will eliminate the need for the felt and fiber washers? I will be placing the end caps (#13) directly onto the bushings. Is this correct?
Also, do you happen to know what the torque specs are on the bolt?
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275 Posts
FWIW
Seeing that plastic bushing stirred a long forgotten memory. My RD 350 had plastic, shouldered bushings just like the one in the picture. When I removed them, They were badly worn and cracked. That bike had barely 6000 miles on it. I bought new ones but hadn't installed them. One day, at a good old fashioned hardware store, I saw bronse bushings of different sizes. One looked like the shouldered plastic swing arm bushings I had at home. I think it was for a furnace blower. I went home, got the Yamaha bushing and went back to the hardware store to eyeball the two and see if the bronze bushing would work. Well, it was too long, the inner diameter was too small and the outer diameter was too big-- but, it was close! I hack sawed the bushing to the proper length then, using emery cloth on a flat surface, squared it off. Then flipped it over and sanded down the shoulder side til the shoulder was the same thickness as the plastic one. Then, I drove a piece of wood into the bushing, drilled a hole through it, and using a long #8 or so screw, washers and nut, tightened the extending screw into my drill and using emory cloth strips, began thinning down the outer diameter to match the plastic bushing. Then, taking a large diameter drill and taping emory cloth to it, then winding it around til it would barely fit into the bushing, I opened it up til the inner diameter matched the OE bushing.
It was a lot of trial and error fitting but I got it so that once installed and the swing arm pivot bolt properly tightened, the swing arm (with nothing attached), would ever so slowly fall (pivot downward) by it's own weight. Total cost at the time? About $4.00 and hours of my time.
Older and (slightly wiser), I see my CB450K2 swingarm is so loose I can easily move my rear tire 1/2 inch side to side. I intend to buy one plastic bushing then hand it over to an engineer friend who has a machinist friend who can make me two bronze bushings-- probably for free.
If I didn't have a friend who had a friend, I would make that trip to the hardware store, find something close and then find some small machine shop to duplicate it in bronze. It can be done on a lathe and maybe a drill press. If they wanted more than $20.00, I'd do it (again) myself, at home, the same way I did it -- back when.
Seeing that plastic bushing stirred a long forgotten memory. My RD 350 had plastic, shouldered bushings just like the one in the picture. When I removed them, They were badly worn and cracked. That bike had barely 6000 miles on it. I bought new ones but hadn't installed them. One day, at a good old fashioned hardware store, I saw bronse bushings of different sizes. One looked like the shouldered plastic swing arm bushings I had at home. I think it was for a furnace blower. I went home, got the Yamaha bushing and went back to the hardware store to eyeball the two and see if the bronze bushing would work. Well, it was too long, the inner diameter was too small and the outer diameter was too big-- but, it was close! I hack sawed the bushing to the proper length then, using emery cloth on a flat surface, squared it off. Then flipped it over and sanded down the shoulder side til the shoulder was the same thickness as the plastic one. Then, I drove a piece of wood into the bushing, drilled a hole through it, and using a long #8 or so screw, washers and nut, tightened the extending screw into my drill and using emory cloth strips, began thinning down the outer diameter to match the plastic bushing. Then, taking a large diameter drill and taping emory cloth to it, then winding it around til it would barely fit into the bushing, I opened it up til the inner diameter matched the OE bushing.
It was a lot of trial and error fitting but I got it so that once installed and the swing arm pivot bolt properly tightened, the swing arm (with nothing attached), would ever so slowly fall (pivot downward) by it's own weight. Total cost at the time? About $4.00 and hours of my time.
Older and (slightly wiser), I see my CB450K2 swingarm is so loose I can easily move my rear tire 1/2 inch side to side. I intend to buy one plastic bushing then hand it over to an engineer friend who has a machinist friend who can make me two bronze bushings-- probably for free.
If I didn't have a friend who had a friend, I would make that trip to the hardware store, find something close and then find some small machine shop to duplicate it in bronze. It can be done on a lathe and maybe a drill press. If they wanted more than $20.00, I'd do it (again) myself, at home, the same way I did it -- back when.
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tbpmusic said:
You are saying, so tight that it won't fall slowly of it's own weight? Or, so tight you have to use pressure to move it?
Or won't it get that tight (in the practical sense, unless you way over torque it)?
Thanks for the info!
I'm curious to see how those "store bought" bushings work! They seem to be just the ticket!
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Bill found the bronze bushings for me. They were tough going in. Lots of grease, a block of wood and a heavy hammer. I have it all assembled on the bike, but I haven't torqued it down. I was tending to the chain guard and shocks. Just making sure everything lines up. I'll torque it down later.
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tbpmusic said:
The only real ride I took mine on was back in October. Overall, about 180 miles. I rode it to the Pre Oregonia Ohio hill climb (the Devils Stair Case) traditional meeting place called the Ally Shop in Cincinatti, Ohio. We left there but didn't go to the hill climb (no one does anymore since the boobs, beer and "Ameri-kun Iron" crowd has taken over). Instead, about 12 of us took the twistiest roads we could find to a house party about a mile from the hill climb right on the Little Miami River. The host is my new "best friend"!
(actually, he is. He's a great guy, good rider and he wants to ride with someone that shares his interest in pretending that BMW RT's are sport bikes. He has an R1200RT, I have a R1150RT.) Putting 2+2 together, what I thought was just a combination of bad shocks, forks, old fashioned frame geometry and low ground clearance causing the bike to drag metal parts unexpectedly, was most likely due to this huge "hinge" in the middle of my bike!
Thanks Bill!!
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