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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I'm being some sort of idiot again and I'm not sure how:
Im in the final stages of my rebuild('72 CL350), trying to get everything back together. Engine is back on bike, working on the clutch. Neutral light wasn't on, couldn't figure it out, figured out. The cam piece that makes the contact wasn't making contact. I could get the engine into neutral lastnight, but it was kind of a hassle. Which made sense cos there's no power behind it and I understand old bikes are hard to shift.
Figured out the neutral light tonight by coming across an old post ( http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/48...ssion-neutral-switch-rotor-out-alignment.html ) post where a dude thought his transmission was backwards. I was trying to get the clutch right and realized my neutral is between 5 and 4. Basically the same issue as the dude, I didn't screw with the shift drum or forks when I had the engine open, more or less the same resolution.
Idiot question #1
I wanted to clarify: pressing all the way down on your shifter lever with the Shaffer turning counterclockwise should downshift and lifting your foot and moving the shifter CW should upshift? When I learned to ride on a rebel, pressing the lever down down shifted. If that's the case with the cl350, my gears are definitely backwards. Or out of rotation. Or I'm remembering wrong.

As I'm freaking out about this, I look in the manual and see the technical drawing of the gear shift and explanation. If my transmission is out of rotation, can I just open my right side cover, disengage the gear shift arm and rotate the shift drum to the correct position?

I forgot my other idiot questions. If I can resolve this without splitting the cases for the third time, I'd be pretty stoked.
 

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With Shift drum in neutral:
Lever position Down is to first and Up would be to second.

When in 2nd, half click down is to neutral. Full click is to first. Up would put you in third.

I don't follow you on installing the trans backwards.

Did you match the locating pins in the case with the end caps on the trans shafts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@doode so my shifting maneuvers are correct. Glad I didn't forget how to ride.
Yes, I took special care to put it back in properly. Doesnt the engine not really seal if it isn't aligned?
What I mean is neutral is between where 4 and 5 should be instead of between 1st and 2nd.
Can the shift drum be out of alignment? I think I clicked it forward (after resealing the cases) before I installed the shift arm. I wasn't sure if I got it back to the position it was originally in or not.
 

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You can't install the shift drum backward because the neutral mount would be on the wrong side and the shift lever grabber wouldn't have anything to grab onto... And I don't think it'll install reversed.
Maybe you could install the shift forks incorrectly but I've never tried. I'm sure the whole thing would bind if so. The shift fork pin rides in the shift drum channel so can't mess anything up there.
The indent for the ball/spring for neutral is set and can't do anything about that... So basically it seems you'd have to work real hard to mess it up.
 

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5
4
3
2
N
1

Is the pattern.

Remove the clutch and break it all down, and spin the shaft the clutch sits on, and rotate the shift drum using a + screw driver. Observe your countershaft spin speed as you go through the gears
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
By reversed, I meant my sequence is backwards. Everything inside should be in check.
I think the shift arm could be out of line.
I'll try turning the shift drum tomorrow night and report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Does the clutch handle lever have to be engaged to do that? I'd assume it would.

Wait nevermind realized I have to remove the clutch basket and assembly in order to access the shift drum.
 

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If the transmission parts - shafts, gears, shift drum and forks - are correctly assembled, the shift pattern takes care of itself. I'm sure you could put a shift fork on the drum backwards, but once you tried to put the shafts (with gears on them) in place they wouldn't line up properly anyway, and even if the shafts went in by some luck the shifting wouldn't go properly from 1st to 5th because the offset of the shift fork that was in backwards would keep the gear it was controlling from sliding far enough one way or the other. Before putting the lower case on, did you test shift it after assembling all the parts? To actually reverse the shift order would require serious modifications to the shift drum at the very least. Also - and this is important - the design of our transmissions is such that engagement dogs on the sides of the gears do not align automatically for every shift, and as such you can't shift from 1st to 5th with no motion in the transmission shafts/gears... you might get lucky and get it into 1st and/or 2nd, but if you don't rotate one of the trans shafts or the rear wheel (if the engine is in the frame and driveline connected), not enough parts will align to shift through all speeds. The clutch being engaged or disengaged is immaterial to any shifting when the engine is off, it's transmission shaft rotation to allow gear movement that actually matters. And, there are false neutrals in many spots in transmissions of this design, because if the gears and engagement dogs aren't lined up to engage the next gear change, say 4th to 5th, the engagement dogs will bump into each other and stop the shift drum movement in between, with nothing engaged. Your best learning tool would have been to manually shift it while apart, before the lower case went on, so you could watch the process. The shift drum can be turned manually while you watch the shift forks move the gears left and right to engage the proper combinations to create each shift and the gears used for the appropriate speed
 

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During the reassembly of my Sloper motor I had many problems with the trans operating as it should, although neutral was always where it should be. I found lots of false neutrals and at one point it completely jammed! It worked well only after I gave the gearset/drum a much better coating of engine oil, installed the shift shaft and other bits and torqued the case halves together, and shifted through the pattern while turning the countershaft sprocket only in the proper direction, as if the rear wheel was driving it. I think the oil bath was the key, but using the complete shift linkage/assembly did make a difference too, as opposed to just trying to twist the shift drum by hand (which I think caused a bit of 'overshifting' or something.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I can't say I shifted the gears the second time I split the engine- had to reopen the first time after mounting it cos the internal circlip of my kickstarter broke off. The engine is back on the bike now. I'm also not sure what gear is where, it's hard to tell without seeing, but I know that my neutral is engaging between 4 and 5. However, sometimes it's between 1&2. At least it was when I first put it on and started messing with the clutch. I don't know how it could've slipped so far though.
Is the shifter drum directional? Like does it end like a rotary phone dial or is it endless like a codex? Is it possible my gears could be 3451N2?

I can post a video tonight of the issue if that helps. Tho I won't be home from work for another 6ish hours.
 

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What are you using to determine gears? Speed the countershaft sprocket is spinning? Position of neutral switch?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It was position of neutral. I'll check countershaft speed when I get to the shop, it was close to midnight when I discovered the issue lastnight and had to go home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Pulled the clutch basket and everything off, tried advancing the shift drum while turning the wheel. Was sortof able to shift with the shift lever for a bit, then it started sticking/not advancing. Took it off, resorted to just the +driver, kept getting caught on the shift drum stopper/ not advancing, I'd have to spin the wheel and back off on the screw before I could move, in most cases it would shift a few gears. I can't get into neutral and what I think is first/ either side of the star piece on the end of the shifter drum. Also what should be neutral according to the neutral switch is somewhere between gears. Should the stopper be off to adjust this? Worried it's something internal and that I might have to pull the engine again. At least I'll know this engine completely inside and out before getting on the road.

On a side note, there hasn't been oil in the engine since December or January. The gears are still lubricated but could that be effecting something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Idiot answer: my shifter link was on upside down. I knew it was something stupid that I was messing up. At least I don't have to pull the engine again.
 
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