[B40dash8]

Hello All. Figured I would start another thread about this knocking I’m trying to chase down. I got around to removing the top end to see if I could see a problem about why I have a knocking in the engine but have not found anything. I’m very discouraged and disappointed that nothing has stuck out well to my eye. If you can please take a look at the YouTube video and see if you can see anything that I haven’t. Thank you very much!

 

[DD23]

Hi,

Vidios are great sometimes, but sometimes still pictures are better.

Are all valve springs fitted with closer coils next to the head ?

Con rods, any small oil holes seen on the rods ?

Don't be dispondent.That knock is quite loud, and what of the glitter seen in the oil. You have not found the culprit yet...

Did you align knock to crank position ?

I have seen the white marks on the flywheel, so you check ign timing, you said a non standard cdi and considered detonation....wrong sort of noise.

Rod bearings, any up and down play in rod big end bearings ?

Any piston rock side to side when rods held tight , little end play ?

 

[B40dash8]

Hey again and thank you for the help. I guess I was really hoping it would be a piston issue but it doesn’t look that way.
I will have a better look at everything today with some better lighting.

Are all valve springs fitted with closer coils next to the head ? I will check that later on and update you

Con rods, any small oil holes seen on the rods ? I will also check that

Don't be dispondent.That knock is quite loud, and what of the glitter seen in the oil. You have not found the culprit yet... yes the oil still doesn’t look quite right to me. I will definitely need a new head gasket and cylinder gasket. The old head gasket is separating. I will also need to figure how the cam adjuster works. (The one with the wedges). I have bought a clymer book but it’s like confusing to read because they put all the engines in one section. So it’s hard to figure out the rebel 450 engine compared to the different earlier engines they also talk about.


Did you align knock to crank position ? I figure it would be at tdc from what I saw with the timing light.

Rod bearings, any up and down play in rod big end bearings ? From what I can see and feel everything is tight. I will definitely check again today when I get home from work.

Any piston rock side to side when rods held tight , little end play ? Yes there is movement side to side on both pistons as demonstrated in the video. I wouldn’t say little end okay. There is movement. But again I’m not sure how much movement there is supposed to be.

 

[DD23]

Side to side movement like gudgeon pin ( wrist pin in USA speak ) sliding in piston a bit, and sliding in the little end eye of the Conrod, normal.

But what about piston "rocking, tilting, tipping " on gudgeon pin, and gudgeon pin rocking/tilting/tipping in rod little end eye, like a seesaw, the kids playground "balance beam", heavy kid on one end, light kid on the other, beam tilts to heavy end sort of thing ?

Suspect problem deeper in engine.

Looking thru the holes in the crank case for the cylinder bores, you should be able to see balance chain system, or part of it...take a look see....

Over.....

Dd23

 

[DD23]

Also pictures of camshaft and that dry looking rocker arm "cam pad" where the cam lobe pushes on the rocker arm.

Picture of cam chain adjusting blade and mechanism at the top...

Dd23.

 

[B40dash8]

I found the problem today. The starter clutch bolts backed out and loosened from the crankshaft. That’s what’s causing the knocking.

 

[DD23]

Well worth the effort then eh

Preparation as to what's to come tomorrow
Go home, have a beer or two, but not 3.

Do your research, study the relevant cmnsl
Engine exploded views as to........

Study, know what's where and how

Was the engine deemed to be having been apart before ?

How was the clutch nut.

You have the two special tools needed...

Has your flywheel bolt been slackened enough for easy removal else cam chain problems, bunching is bad...

Is that a puncture hole your sticking the probe into ?

Go have a beer to celebrate your beginnings, get many boxes...

Come back tomorrow after church, prey hard.....

Study views, time well spent, remove other labeled piston, you know the drill.....enjoy

NOS da

Dd23🔃🔄↪↩⤴⤵↗↘↕↔

 

[B40dash8]

Thanks. Tough decision to make here. Not many bottom ends to buy on eBay or forums. Doubt anyone would be up to ever shipping one here anyway. I really dont have the know how to split the case and fix the crank. There aren’t any YouTube vids on these engines to follow along with. Flywheel bolt was tight. A well known rebel forum member mentioned he thinks someone was in the engine before I have owned the bike for those bolts to back out.

 

[DD23]

Hi b40,

New day new problems...

Don't be despondent, not yet anyway...

If you are going further with this engine, you will need a flywheel puller bolt, same size and thread as the oil filter bolt, which you take to your bolt shop for comparison. Get a long bolt. The bolt I use is about a foot long.

Get or make a clutch nut socket there is a thread on here of how to make it. I know one person on here who made one very recently, anoloqueliz.

Do not remove engine from frame untill the flywheel retaining bolt has been removed along with flywheel and stator, and clutch nut slackened.

The bike provides a steady mass which will help you along with means of preventing things from moving/rotating.

Flywheel bolt.

You have given your self a problem by removing cyl head meaning the cam chain will be compromised unless care is taken.

Get an assistant to hold the cam chain up and tight, so if flywheel rotates, the cam chain cannot bunch up and damaged, whilst the flywheel retaining bolt is undone and removed.

Clutch nut, assistant holds cam chain up and tight, bike in high gear, apply rear brake and undo the clutch nut with your socket.

Then you can remove the engine.

In your first thread someone mentioned the clutch nut was on backwards, meaning engine had been apart before.

Maybe due to broken starter clutch due to hydraulic lock due to carbs leaking ???

You have gone this far. You have a warm dry well lit organised work space. You do, with some guidance probably, have the skills and cautious determination to take this engine apart, hopefully repair, and successfully reassemble.

For course you will not know the full extent of damage untill you take the engine apart for assessment.

Your bike, your time, your money, your decision.

I know the forum will help, it's why it's here.

 

[B40dash8]

Thank you for all the info DD! You read my mind and answered my questions I had but haven’t posted yet haha. I wasn’t aware of the clutch but on backwards. I will have to double check that. I have a pretty strong impact drill that will probably take off the clutch nut easily. I will also have to buy that bolt you mentioned for the flywheel. The gaskets and head gasket is also available for 25 bucks from gasket king. Will the transmission have to be disassembled in anyway to split the case? Also will I need a puller or any special tools to split the case? I will also have to make the clutch nut socket. Unless I can find one for sale. Not sure if it’s the same size of the rebel 250 or not. Yes I see the cam chain is easily able to get bunched up. I noticed that yesterday. I will also get you the pictures of the cam shaft that you wanted to see.

 

[DD23]

Undoing and removing engine components with engine in frame is easier that way.

Don't take engine out until flywheel and stator removed, clutch removed to save a bit of effort and another handle.

Since the work to come necessitates, crank oil pump sprocket, spacer from memory and then the bits on primary gear system.

Remove oil pump screws via strong rock solid support on the other side of the oil pump

So, when that's done, take the engine out.

Clutch nut socket and whizzzzy rattle gun, not for me.

If you can remove outside crap without it joining the inside crap of the engine, that would be good I think. May be as well to flush out glitter as much as possible.

Feedback when above done...

 

[B40dash8]

Thank you DD you have been a huge help with your help and everyone else’s. I removed the clutch today. Unfortunately Lowes didn’t have a m20x1.5 bolt So I have to check the hardware stores around here tomorrow. Made the clutch socket with a angle grinder with a cut off wheel and a plasma cutter. Doesn’t look pretty but it worked with the impact gun very easily. Can’t really do much without having the the m20 bolt for the flywheel today. Tempted to use the oil bolt but you know those threads will rip out easily so I won’t do that. Here are some pictures so far..

 

[B40dash8]

Right side Rocker

 

[DD23]

Good morning b40,

Can't tell a huge amount as the pictures are too fuzzy...

Yes, be patient on the flywheel bolt...

Feedback when ready

You have lots of boxes to keep stuff segregated and not mixed up/lost.

Dd23

 

[B40dash8]

Morning, The m20 bolt is hard to find. None of the hardware stores around me have them. May have to go to the internet.

 

[DD23]

Maybe places like Harbour Frieght ??

UK based so don't know shops etc. in USA.

I gone mine from scrap pile at Merc workshop.

If you draw a complete blank, come back...

You have access to a lathe and welder ?

 

[mike in idaho]

Tusk Flywheel Puller 20mm for Honda TRX 400EX 1999-2008

Buy Tusk Flywheel Puller 20mm for Honda TRX 400EX 1999-2008 at Amazon. Customer reviews and photos may be available to help you make the right purchase decision!

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[B40dash8]

Thanks I picked up that puller from amazon. Will be here in a couple of days. Yes DD I have a mig welder. I guess I’m going to have to make a engine stand for working on this engine.

 

[DD23]

Mig welder, stand, dam good idea.

Glad a good puller bolt is on its way.

Please remind us why your taking the engine apart ?

 

[DD23]

Doh, confusing you with a similar thread, the starter clutch is buggered on yours, that horrible noise. My bad.