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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been posting all of this up on the DoTheTon forums, but since I just joined here, I thought I'd post again.

Since I'm new to the whole older bike scene, and bikes in general, this is my short term project to get the bike "reliable"

My FINAL goals are to have a cool little cafe bike to ride around town .

Here's how old brownie started out

inside the tank... ew..


Started the teardown

to find this in the right carb...

 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Well, The fuel tank no longer looks like a brownie ;D Sent it to work with my dad to stick it in a dip tank at the airport, which worked really well for cleaning out the inside, but didn't remove decals at all... Turns out, this tank has been cut open and rewelded before, making rust removal a non-issue. Still, it's getting POR-15'ed as we speak.



What do you guys think? I think I want it to be brushed look with clear over it, or flat black.


Pulled the stator cover off and gave it a nice refurbishing...
before

after


Got the ignition cylinder bracket and toolbox stripped and painted today. These were REALLY rusty, and now they are primed and painted with the most overkill paint for these two parts :p


Got a new chain for it today too. Tomorrow will be testing out a chrome-friendly rust removal method I've used on bicycles before
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
UPDATE! new parts have arrived!

So the spokes on these wheels are Ruuuuuussstyy! They look like they are still fine to ride on, but they definitely are not worth trying to refinish; just too much pitting there. I got the old (OEM! what a pain!) tires off the bike and my new ones came in. Not period correct, but they should have some nasty grip for the street.

As she sits now


Also got my new carb cores in yesterday, man was this thing nasty! Sitting in some Berryman's right now



Also, I gave in to dealing with the old petcock (teehee!) and bought a NOS Honda one. Man will this be nice!


The rear brake linings are immaculate! It's almost like the previous owner didn't even use the rear brake!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
At this point I was having trouble getting it to run, and I feared the worst about the cam timing being off.


OK, so it turns out that the trigger leads to the coils were swapped. At some point, the coils were swapped to opposite sides but the wiring was still attached with the correct colors. The chain noise I heard I *assume* was the motor firing backwards and changing the tension direction. I got a picture of the exhaust cam indexing mark... this is when the mark on the generator is @ "LF" at TDC


Does this look close enough? It doesn't look like a tooth off to me, but then again they are small teeth. I'll pull the intake cover too.

It runs, sorta. I think it's more a fueling issue now than anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok, so I got the new coils installed. Only got about half of the progress on film (you know how it is, excitement gets ahold of you!

How the bike stood before the tank came off again :-\



New coils



What I'll be making these brackets out of, some random Aluminum I found in the shop



Old coil assembly-removed



Bracket halfway there. Fitted to the OEM coil bracket


The rest was in that "forgot to take pictures" stage. I'll tell you one thing, these new coils with shock the ever-loving piss out of you! I fixed the bowl filling issue with the left hand carb. It turns out that the adjuster tab on it was bent at an angle, and causing grief. It also turns out that the same carb is having issues with getting enough fuel at idle. It will backfire some unless the screw is all the way in (full idle rich right?) and even then it still backfires. The right cylinder is running amazingly!

Looks like the carb is coming off AGAIN for a good cleaning
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
At this point I hadn't worked on the bike in almost 3 months. :( I was kinda having withdrawals so I decided to spruce things up a bit :twisted:



Well I've been financially in a pinch since this summer, but I've started a new job and started some more work on the bike!

I decided that I was going to upgrade the front suspension soooooooo.....

CBR600 F4i shocks, axle, brakes, and bar. Adjustable, modern forks should improve the ride a bit.




Here they are side by side with the originals.



Got a smashing good deal on these so I set off taking the old front end apart. I just want to know how the hell Honda crammed all that wiring into the headlight housing!??!?! Cold, old wiring doesn't like to flex much so it took about 30 minutes just to get the headlight bucket off. Once I got everything apart I started measuring.

The lower stem on both the 450 and the CBR are 30mm.



The problem occurs with the ball bearing size. The 450 has ~6mm balls while the CBR has 7mm balls.



The head tube in the frame is too small to fit the CBR bearings by about 2mm



I *think* I'm just going to go ahead and convert the lower bearings to taper rollers, since all else will be the same. The upper presents a problem. I can either use the original 450 ball bearings or figure out something else. I'll get some more measurements tonight.


I left the bike sitting like so last night, just to get an idea of the new look. Also found out that the steering stop tab on the frame is too wide, and only allows about 30 degrees of steering angle, with a bias to the left. I don't think that the tank will need to be clearanced once that is fixed!


 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Figured out that the lower bearing race for both the 450 and the CBR are the same installed height. This means that the taper-roller upgrade should go in perfectly and sit at the right height! The upper ball bearing race fits on the CBR stem perfectly, and would still work, but sits maybe 3-4mm higher on the stem. I'm not sure what this means yet for the taper-roller conversion.



I moved on to the front wheel bearings since I'm going to retain the 450's front wheel.


Started my super-scientific calculations to see if there was a bearing that would fit both the wheel and the CBR axle diameter (20mm)


The OEM bearing measures 15x42x13 (mm)
and can be replaced with a #6004-2rs bearing measuring 20x42x12. I will have to machine a new spacer for between the bearings and collars for proper spacing, but it will work.



So what do you guys think? With the fender or without?



I'm leaning towards keeping the fender, albeit slightly trimmed up front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ok update time!

I got some more work done. It's been slow going (machining took some time) but good progress has been made.

I FINALLY was able to get the wheel bearing out, and test out the fit of the new ones

new bearing, new axle


some measurements.


The wheel bearings are only supported on one side of the wheel, the rest is kept from sliding into the hub by a machined spacer.



I also got my tapered steering bearings in and measured correctly. You have to space them up the stem the correct distance in order for the stem to sit in the correct spot.

bottom race inthe teer tube

upper tube


lower bearing installed

upper bearing before being packed


and when all is said and done you can still use the stock upper nut from the 450!


also cleaned up the upper triple tree; removing the CBR ignition cylinder mount.



that's all for now
 

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The project looks good and I think the 600 front end will look great as well. It's more front end/suspension than the stock frame and swingarm could ever handle.

Take another look at your tapered bearing installation and think about what's going to happen with the way you have it installed. If I read correctly, you purposely positioned the lower race so the lower triple would not hit the headstock (common problem). However, by doing this, the race has no backing. As you ride I suspect that the bumps, pounding and occasional wheelie landing the front end on the ground, will force the race to move up in the head stock and cause some problems.
 

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Here are a couple of pictures that are not very clear but might show what is necessary to install the races on the 450 (and maybe the 750's as well).



 

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MNellis said:
.... However, by doing this, the race has no backing. As you ride I suspect that the bumps, pounding and occasional wheelie landing the front end on the ground, will force the race to move up in the head stock and cause some problems.
+1 to that, Mike.
There is a little "shelf" or lip that the race butts against, well up inside the neck.
 

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Hey Mike, why the grinding or cutting on the bottom of the steering neck?? That wasn't necessary on mine for the bearing conversion. Am I missing something?

You guys are correct on that lower race though.. It may move up more on him just by tightening the upper nut..

GB :mrgreen:
 

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Bird76Mojo said:
Hey Mike, why the grinding or cutting on the bottom of the steering neck?? That wasn't necessary on mine for the bearing conversion. Am I missing something?

You guys are correct on that lower race though.. It may move up more on him just by tightening the upper nut..

GB :mrgreen:

I had to grind mine a bit too, things were rubbing.
What a bummer to have to grind fresh powdercoat......
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bird76Mojo said:
That's odd. I used the washer on the stem first, then the seal, then the bearing.. No rub..


GB :mrgreen:

Hopefully it doesn't need any grinding! I used a thick washer underneath the bearing on the stem; The All Balls kit I used gave a measurement of the height needed to bring the bearing to the correct height on the stem to keep the race from pulling in any further.


*ninja edit* I just realized what you guys were talking about :lol: I neglected to mention that the race wasn't fully seated in that photo, but it was as far as my driver would go before it hit the frame. I got it pulled the rest of the way in by tightening the stem.
 

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pbussey said:
Bird76Mojo said:
That's odd. I used the washer on the stem first, then the seal, then the bearing.. No rub..


GB :mrgreen:
*ninja edit* I just realized what you guys were talking about :lol: I neglected to mention that the race wasn't fully seated in that photo, but it was as far as my driver would go before it hit the frame. I got it pulled the rest of the way in by tightening the stem.
It's good to hear that you got the race seated, I think there might have been some problems otherwise.
 

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Bird76Mojo said:
Hey Mike, why the grinding or cutting on the bottom of the steering neck?? That wasn't necessary on mine for the bearing conversion. Am I missing something?
Did you use the stock "ears" on your installation? I installed the steering stem bearings to check on the installed height and it came out too tall, just about the width of the smaller washer in the kit. I also installed the rubber dust seal on the bottom and I didn't include that part in the stack height measurements but then the stock set up included a small dust type of washer that I didn't include either. Anyway, here is what I ended up with after installing. With the washer and dust seal installed I had a gap at the top of the ear that I couldn't live with. I had to remove the lower bearing and then remove the washer and dust cover. When that was done the ears fit great but the lower triple rubbed on the headstock, hence my need to grind the headstock.

The bottom bearing is a little tough to remove and install but I got it off without damaging anything.

 

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BINGO Mike! You hit the bent nail on the head. I'm not using factory headlight ears..

I knew I was missing something, yet again.. :roll: :oops:

GB :mrgreen:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oh wow, I didn't even think about the stock headlight ears! Luckily I'm using the CBR forks so they don't work anymore.
 
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