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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone.
I just put oil in my newly assembled CL450K5 engine and cranked the engine over with the starter (spark plugs out and the exhaust valve cover off) to ensure I’m getting oil pumping to the head. The problem is that it seems like oil is not making it to the head. I can only crank on the starter for about 30 seconds before my battery dies. Even with a 50 amp “starter assist” on my charger (weak battery). I ensured the galleys were clear by blowing compressed air into the galley at the bottom of the right cylinder behind the clutch cover. Is there a possibility that the oil pump is cavitated? I took the oil filter/centrifuge cover off and oil seemed to want to pour out of the small hole that supplied the head so I’m kind of at a loss here. I should add that I used a vesrah gasket kit upon reassembly. This includes the head gasket and the rubber pickings that seal the oil galley at the two cylinder head studs. I’m concerned that those two packings are obstructing the galley enough to block the flow of oil. Has anyone experienced anything like this before?

Any input or advise would be greatly appreciated!
 

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It's one of the mysteries of these engines... the pump is simple and when all the parts are in good condition, there should be no reason why it won't pump. I suspect it's one of 2 things (and even mine got oil to the top when I had the oil filter valve improperly assembled, but intermittently) - either the oil filter valve is not properly assembled and oil is leaking past the valve into the crankcase, or it just isn't turning long enough. If you didn't disturb the oil filter valve (and this is assuming it's never been disassembled, or at least done by someone who knew how to put it back together properly over the bike's life before you) then it isn't likely to be that. This is why I always mention the long amount of time it takes to get oil flow to the top end on a 450 and how it shouldn't be run hard for at least 2 full minutes until the oil pump can get good flow to the cams and followers. Here's what I did wrong on my oil filter valve last year, which took me a few times of damage and disassembly to discover - I was too casual when taking it apart to clean it and didn't pay attention to the design and re-assembly needs

https://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-project-logs/65305-cl450-project-reboot-street-legal-time-7.html#post693025

Just looked at the pictures in the old post and realized they wouldn't zoom then because of an issue with the website during that period last year, so here are the same pictures now, hopefully full-size now

20170603_144002.jpg 20170603_144058.jpg

20170603_144320.jpg 20170603_144320b.jpg
 

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Tom, Are your sharpie marks indicating the correct orientation? Those two tabs drop into the round holes and not into the elongated holes, right?

During my rebuilds I didn't disassemble that part but gave it real good cleaning with solvent and compressed air, so I never saw the innards, and was always 99% sure I was the first one to go that deep into the motor. I did pull the piston from the oil pump and gave it a good cleaning as well, and then bench tested it in a shallow pan of oil. It moved a surprising amount of oil but I know that is not a test of it's ability to build pressure. Those first few minutes of run-in were quite nerve-wracking.
 

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Tom, Are your sharpie marks indicating the correct orientation? Those two tabs drop into the round holes and not into the elongated holes, right?

During my rebuilds I didn't disassemble that part but gave it real good cleaning with solvent and compressed air, so I never saw the innards, and was always 99% sure I was the first one to go that deep into the motor. I did pull the piston from the oil pump and gave it a good cleaning as well, and then bench tested it in a shallow pan of oil. It moved a surprising amount of oil but I know that is not a test of it's ability to build pressure. Those first few minutes of run-in were quite nerve-wracking.
Nerve-wracking, indeed - especially when you have over $900 in pistons and cams alone, forget the boring labor and 2 new followers at $100 each... yes, those holes in the bottom are where the locating tabs are supposed to go, and what I missed the first time. IIRC, I got about 15 miles on the first run of the engine before the left exhaust cam bearing cap (furthest from the oil flow) got worn badly enough from intermittent lubrication that it stalled at low rpm due to retarded timing caused by too much play in the bearing surface - you could see the cam move back and forth while turning it over with the points cover off, which affected the points gap, of course. I thought it was my mistake in not pre-lubing enough and there was no damage on the cam at the point, so I bought a new points side cam bearing cap and did it again, and it lasted about 20 miles or so... at that point there was wear on the cam bearing journal on that side and an inspection camera showed a piece of debris inside the cam at that end, near the orifices that feed oil flow to that end of the cam. I sent the cam back to MegaCycle and they cleaned up the bearing surface and sleeved it (for an additional $50) but offered no apologies for the debris in the cam... so then it went back together and 65 miles or so later (after thinking I'd caught the problem), it fried the left cam lobe and follower, absolute destruction. Then I found the oil filter valve alignment... guess debris in the cam wouldn't ever have been a problem (right - when you get a part back from a specialized service in a plastic bag coated with light oil, it seems ready to install, but they told me I should have washed it anyway)
 

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There are some harsh lessons to be learned, for sure. I'm still too sensitive to mention any of the ones I've had to learn in the past 14 years alone. I had to learn to not even trust my own notes and procedures and although my parts look clean before re-assembly- I clean them again in my HF parts washer then a rinse in either water or brake cleaner with an air blast just before I begin the assemblies . Adds a lot of time to the process but if you could see how filthy my shop is, usually, you'd understand my OCD approach LOL.
 

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You may not get oil up there unless it's running. Assembly lube should protect it. You can squirt oil in the rocker cover also.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks for the advice about the oil valve! I’ll take a look at that tomorrow! And as for the tach drive hole enlargement goes, I’ll look into doing that to my engine.

Also I should use a larger battery to be attempting oil pressure. I’m not sure that the one I’m using is pushing enough amps to really crank it over hard enough to pump I’ll report back with findings and results.
 
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