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Discussion Starter #1
Hello...new here...needing help of course.

QUESTION: Should my Newtronics ignition module be drawing 2.5 amps ? What should it be drawing if any ?

My CB450 Black Bomber is running the battery down. I checked the generator and rectifier; both are good.

By the book I should have 2 amps available for charging the battery. But, my Newtronics Ignition module is drawing 2.5 amps. Hence, nothing there to charge the battery.

Any help is greatly apreciated.
 

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I believe the regular ignition draws about 2 amps and the electronic draws about 2.5amps...

So at an idle, both draw more than the charging system. above an idle, the charging system should be able to run the ignition system, the lights and put a little bit more into the battery.
 

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This bike doesn't have a regulator. Would that mean this bike could never tolerate an electronic iggy ? Would I be better off replacing the generator/rectifier with one from a later model which has a higher output/rectifier/regulator ?

I'm pretty stewwwpid on this subject. Do later models have higher outputs which would be better suited to tolerating this Newtronics iggy ?
 

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RicH2 said:
This bike doesn't have a regulator. Would that mean this bike could never tolerate an electronic iggy ? Would I be better off replacing the generator/rectifier with one from a later model which has a higher output/rectifier/regulator ?

I'm pretty stewwwpid on this subject. Do later models have higher outputs which would be better suited to tolerating this Newtronics iggy ?

I'm running an electronic ignition on my 305 that has an even worse charging system. If you let any 305 idle for a couple of hours (why would your do this?), it will run down the battery. This is with a factory coil and points.

A 450 does infact have an improved rectifier, and added a voltage regulator. The voltage regulator simply kicks in when the voltage reaches 14.3-14.7 volts and drains off anything much above that, otherewise it doesnt do much at lower voltages.(zenor diodes were invented by then and were used for the trigger device). The 450 also has a bigger battery over a 305 scambler so it can idle much longer before the battery runs down. But both bikes will begin to charge once above an idle, the 450 a bit more than the 305.

Remember the head light draws 2.9 amps, plus the taillight 1amp, the stop light will draw 2 amps, the speedometer and tach lights draw .3 amps each. the stock ignition draws 2 amps.. so the bike will keep even plus still have an bit or so left over for battery charging. I think I remember that with the lights on, it will only charge to 13.5volts,, which is the mimimum recomended charge voltage. 14.2 volts is a better charge which is what the bike does when the lights are off and. The higher charge voltage will "bulk" charge the battery and correct weak cells and equilize the battery bettery than will the trickle charge or mantainance charge of 13.5 volts.

You can go to an led tail light to save a half amp or a bit more to compensate for your electronic ignition. You can go to a schottkey rectifier and improve the charge rate a bit more with another .4 volts for charging. Schottkeys are kind of iffy when ac voltages go above 40 volts and the charging system can do that on these bikes. So its common to blow up schottkeys on motorcycles.

hope this helps. Bill


Wait,, if you have the early model.. then your more like a 305... and you probably do not have the regulator. goe to led taillight,, check charging system. consider installing a regulator, radio shack full wave diode asssembly and wiring around the light switch so that the second field coil is inline all the time. The regulator will drain off any excess over 14.5 volts to ground.. do not wire around the light switch unless you add the regulator... this will bring your system up to the newer 450's.. so life is good.

but you need a good battery and system to begin with and an led tail light to be even over the stock system with the electronic ignition. I have had no problems on my 305 so far with just an led tail light, factory charging system and electronic ignition system. I installed an cigarette socket on near the handle bar bolts and run an led voltmeter on the 305 to keep tabs on it. The scramblers have little bitty pathetic 4amp batterys so it really important you keep an eye on the voltage. You can buy the cheap voltmeters for a cigarette lighter socket for about 13 bucks on ebay.. and I had to tyewrap it in, to keep it from vibrating out, but its useful for seeing changes in the system as I change out different parts. A k0 probably has the same germanium diodes as the 305 which are pretty flaky at best. so again, upgrade the rectifier, add a regulator(off ebay) and splice the other charge coil on full time and you will have a great charging system. clean all cable connections at the battery and the ground on the frame/engine bolts. add and led tail light and your in biz...

wow, how bout pics of the k0... they are pretty rare..

bill
 

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sotxbill said:
A 450 does infact have an improved rectifier, and added a voltage regulator.
hope this helps. Bill
I do not believe that Bombers (K0) had a regulator.......
 

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His Bomber does not have either the "improved" rectifier or any regulator at all.... It runs the orange Selenium rectifier, which work fine, but are easily damaged. I would suggest an upgrade to the later style rectifier...... The charging systems on the 450's are nominal at best, (they don't really get into a "plus" state until at least 1800/2000 RPM), but an easy improvement can be made by permanently connecting the "extra" charging coil pair in to the circuit.... Simply jumper (connect) the pink wire to the yellow wire where the alternator wiring plug joins the main harness...The Brown wire remains as it was....This puts the system in the "overcharge" mode (that normally only connects when the lights are on) 100% of the time.... (NOTE! These colors only apply to the 4-speed Bomber windings. The 5-speed bikes use a Pink wire instead of the brown, and uses a white wire to replace the 4-speed pink.... If you change to a 5-speed stator, you must connect the wiring point-to-point, NOT just by color!)
If the alternator output (Unplugged from harness, and across Brown and Yellow on the 4-speed, or Pink and Yellow on the 5-speed) is in the 60VAC range at high revs, the alternator is doing its job...
Steve
 

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Sorry, didnt not see the k0.. so I edited my post.. k1's and newer have the regulator if my wiring schematics are correct. My k2 and k5 both have the newer systems over my 305s...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Will a points assembly from a K7 fit the Bomber ?
Part number : 30200 - 292 - 154

Just checking on my options here.
The Bomber parts list gives a P/N 30200 - 292 - 671.
On some later models both the part numbers given here (-671 & -154) are listed.
 

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Gotta jump in here the Aus and general export K0-1-2 didn't have a separate regulator, the battery acts as the regulator. Yep not much help for your problem, but hey knowledge is a good thing :shock:

Rod from OZ :cool:
 

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The last three digits indicate a change... Could be different manufacturer of identical part, or another modification, color, whatever.... As long as the center three are 292, it was designed for use on a "292" series bike... 292 is the original 450 5-speed designation

Yes, AFAIK, they will fit and work....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
66Sprint said:
The last three digits indicate a change... Could be different manufacturer of identical part, or another modification, color, whatever.... As long as the center three are 292, it was designed for use on a "292" series bike... 292 is the original 450 designation

Yes, AFAIK, they will fit and work....
I thought the Black Bomber middle numbers were 283...yes/no ?
 

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also -671 is US only ;)

Rod from OZ :cool:
 

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I just happened across this page by accident and thought it was worthy of posting up. Last I knew this manufacturer wasn't yet offering a kit for the 450...

http://www.pazon.com/ignition-system/sm ... cb450-race


It's one VERY EXPENSIVE option but to some it may be worth it...? :shock: Plus they say it carries a 7.5 year warranty.. Regardless it does have some very nice features built into the unit that others just can't offer.

GB :mrgreen:
 

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Hi Group
I am not familiar with the Newtronics Ignition. Is it a CDI or an inductive ignition? If it is a CDI are we talking about a continuous draw of 2.5 amps? I would expect the stock coil to draw about 3.5 amps but only for one quarter, more or less, of the time. As there are two coils that is one half the time so an average of say 1,75 amps.
I have used one half of a HondaMan ignition on my Super 90. My Super 90 was running with a home made 6.5 volt voltage regulator and a 10,000 uf capacitor. Very little extra draw over the current draw of the ignition coil.
I just read the Coil Replacement thread. I noticed a lot of talk about grounding the coil. The coil does NOT need to be grounded. The Primary circuit is grounded when the points close. The secondary circuit is grounded when the spark jumps across the the spark plug gap. A good connection is needed between the ground of the capacitor and the ground side of the points. So run a wire from the capacitor mounting screw to the engine.
TomC in Ohio
 

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I'm looking to go electric ignition, newtronics lists their model for the 450k5 as in "redevelopment" but I can source a previous kit for $181
So,

A: are people happy with them?

B: is it a fair price?

c: are they redesigning for a known weakness?
 
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