[dagersh]

Guys,

I did some searching around the site, and I cannot find the answer. I was servicing my BB last night to see why the Electric Starter does not engage. I pulled the rotor with the rotor removal bolt that fits my K5 - no problem there. Upon inspection of the rotor assembly, the outer clutch was cracked and the rollers and springs were partly in the belly pan or sticking to the magnetic rotor. All parts are accounted for, I am going to need to replace the outer clutch. Will a later model rotor/starter clutch fit the Black Bomber?

Thanks!

Gersh

 

[66Sprint]

As far as I know, the entire unit (rotor and starter clutch) is identical.......
A part numbers comparison would verify.....

 

[dagersh]

Thanks Sprint. I checked the part numbers, they are different, but everything looks identicle to my K5. I will give it a try and see how it pans out.

Thanks!!!

Gersh

 

[nigelrharris03]

Yep agreed. I have had to replace my K0 Rotor and Clutch with a K5 and it works just fine.

 

[dagersh]

Thanks Nigel!

 

[nigelrharris03]

Looking forward to the pictures of it working

 

[dagersh]

I will get them up for you Nigel. Meanwhile...

I think my clutch is slipping. When I engage the Kick Starter, the Clutch inner rotates, but not the gear on the outer. I am assuming that I need to replace the plates. It looks like I can use plates and discs from any CB450 (through K7). Is there a good upgrade like a Barnett Kit?

 

[nigelrharris03]

I did buy a set of plates from ebay when I found them though fortunately I dont need to change them just yet. I have them as its sensible to get this type of item when you see it. I would think that a search would find you some.
try this link.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_kw=clutc ... 0&_rusck=1

 

[66Sprint]

Not to be a "smartass", but in this world where electric starters are so reliable most newer bikes don't even have a kicker, many riders are accustomed to grabbing/pulling the clutch lever in when starting a/their bike......You ARE in neutral with the clutch lever released when kicking your bike over...Right?

 

[nigelrharris03]

many riders are accustomed to grabbing/pulling the clutch lever in when starting a/their bike......You ARE in neutral with the clutch lever released when kicking your bike over...Right?

Steve a good point.
Its so natural to not think about the actual process of kicking a bike over, fuel on choke on, open kick start, grab front brake and throtle.
Yes if you pulled the clutch in you would certainly get some clutch slip, and probably a hernia from the speed of the decending kickstart

 

[66Sprint]

I considered the hernia AND hurtings someones feelings....But I've done it, so others might....Just HAD to ask....LOL

 

[nigelrharris03]

Funny you should admit to that, Ive been there too :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dagersh]

Slipping Clutch Updates

Hi Guys,

No, I am definitely not touching the clutch during kickstarting, but a good question, nonetheless!

I have delved further into the clutch. I pulled the basket apart to assess the springs and plates after researcing on the site.

All my plates are in great shape, and well within their wear limits. The springs, however, I think are shot. Unloaded, they are all 38mm and change... Now, my Bomber has the 6-spring clutch. Are the wear limits identical to the later 4 spring clutches?

I also checked my lifter and rod. The seal is good, the rod is not bent, and I will be repacking the mechanism with grease upon reassembly - and, yes, I have the #10 ball bearing intact!

So, I think my problem lies with worn springs. What do you guys think?

Gersh

BTW - the later rotor and starter clutch went in just fine. It seems to work, but with the slipping clutch, I cannot be 100% certain.

 

[nigelrharris03]

Im pleased about the rotor and clutch, thats great news.

Im sure steve will be able to confirm about the clutch basket.

As far as I am aware the basic engine and castings didn't change much, however there are clear differences such as 4-5 speed gearbox, starter motor, splines for the cintrifical oil filter etc.

I have been told that some have put the 5 speed gear train into the 4 speed casings with no problems.

You could try offering up the back of the clutch baskets to see they match in the number of gear teeth. That would be the first consideration. Then there is the issue of the oil pump which has definately changed as models have progressed, there have been threads on here recently regarding that.
You would probably need to change the complete system including the oil pump if you changed the basket.

 

[66Sprint]

Gersh,
I show 39.4 as the standard measurement with the "replace at" at 37.3 for the 450's... An easy test would be to add spacing washers to the spring assemblies to "preload" them.....At 38+ yours are at least halfway gone (and with "fresh' rings might prove insufficient).....If you have another "parts" 450, you could just try the springs from a known working example.....
Personally, although it's not "pure" restoration, I'd use a later 4 spring clutch and the aluminum bodied oil pump.....If you don't have a parts bike, I have the entire clutch/pump assembly you can have for a "token" price and shipping....e-mail me...Steve

 

[dagersh]

Wow,

Thanks guys!

Steve - where did you come across the 37.3mm? Not that I doubt you for a second - just want the education!

I am not super interested in a concourse restoration - the bike is a great runner with very good patina, and 100% complete. I would rather keep it running strong. If the newer style pump gets the oil up faster and stronger, I am all for that mod! Honda should have done that on their own anyway...

What else would keep the KS from engaging? I have looked at all the springs and levers in that case, and all looks well.

Thanks again everyone! Love this site!

Gersh

 

[66Sprint]

Well Gersh...Good news and bad..... Those specs are for 5-speed 450's (from my Chiltons) The 500T is different........ My research indicates a 40.1 free length for the 4 speeders...with a replace at 39.4.... Sorry to have elevated your hopes, but it does explain your symptoms.....

Sorry it's so dark......

 

[dagersh]

there is my answer!

Thanks!

 

[dagersh]

Re: Kickstart works great, Electric... not so much!

Hi Guys,

I have upgraded and overhauled my clutch and starter on the Bomber. She kicks great, and the new clutch springs and Barnett plates are working just fine - so the bike can be ridden. That is a relief!

Anyway, not being satisfied with the status quo... I still cannot get the dman starter to engage. The starter spins strong, and everything rotates beautifully. I pulled the rotor again and installed brand new springs and rollers into the starter clutch. However, no go - it just won't engage and spins freely. :x

Also, my new oil reeks of gas...

Any advice would be great.

Gersh

 

[nigelrharris03]

You didn't leave the petcock on did you?
Steve's advise will be "lose the contaminated oil NOW" Don't try to start until its all cleared out, or damage will ensue.