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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Working on my 450 project I’ve just bought a bearing puller set which enabled me to remove one front and one rear wheel bearing. I would have pulled all bearings if there just weren’t the bearing retainers. My two different 450 shop manuals are not really specific about the retainers and how to remove them but the 500T manual is. There I’ve learned that two different special tools are required. A quick search in the all knowing junk yard (internet) destroyed my hope that they can be ordered somewhere. So how do you guys get these things out? Elbow grease is certainly not sufficient here. Am I missing something or do I have to go to the locksmith for custom tools?
 

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Don't 4into1, dime, Common motor etc. sell the tool?

Edit: I guess not, there are some, but not for the 450.



Get a correctly sized punch and your torch, and get after it i guess. Then buy a new retainer after you mangle the old one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't 4into1, dime, Common motor etc. sell the tool?

Edit: I guess not, there are some, but not for the 450.



Get a correctly sized punch and your torch, and get after it i guess. Then buy a new retainer after you mangle the old one.
I agree that new retainers are easily ordered but the risk of damaging the hubs is just too big.
 

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A flat piece of metal with two holes drilled in it, and two pin punches. Stick the pin punches through the holes into the bearing retainer and crank away. If you don't have a pair of pin punches, two drill bits, inserted in the holes backwards will work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Even with those, you will want to GENTLY drill out the staking (as shallowly as possible, and with the smallest appropriate drill bit size obviously)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Even with those, you will want to GENTLY drill out the staking (as shallowly as possible, and with the smallest appropriate drill bit size obviously)
Thanks! This had the potential to be overlooked. But just to get it right; the staking is a metal needle sunken in between the parts, right? Is it deep? The K5 450 rear hub has nothing although the 500T obviously has...

IMG_0815.jpg

IMG_0819.jpg
 

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the staking is a metal needle sunken in between the parts, right? Is it deep? The K5 450 rear hub has nothing although the 500T obviously has...

View attachment 277642

View attachment 277644
Nope, it's just been center punched to prevent the bearing retainer from backing out.

A little bit of drilling will remove that area of the threads and all should be good to unscrew and reuse the existing retainers. But its frustrating and easy to bugger the retainers up because we tend not to drill deep enough.

This is a quote from a thread over on SOHC4 by member HondaMan a known authority on many things vintage Honda:
"When removing these retainers, first drill thru the staked sites with a 1/8" or 5/32" drill, to the bottom of the threads. Clean out the chips, and then the retainers just spin out easily, without damaging the threads. This was Honda's method for these parts. When installing the retainer, use a punch and stake it down in 2 new places at least."

I know I've seen photos posted of the staking locations after drilling, but that was pre-photobucket snafu, I'll see if I can find any.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Nope, it's just been center punched to prevent the bearing retainer from backing out.
Ahh, thats what I thought at first but the translation for stake said something like a rivet, splint or needle in German. Good to know, so I’ll drill out that first bit gently.
 

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I've just read the same tip elsewhere, good call but use it sparingly.

Before reassembly you can verify the threads are all clean and undamaged by using a bolt with the same thread pitch (M10 oil drain bolt is the same I think)
Use the bolt's threads to force the soft metal of the bearing retainer threads back into good form, use a small angled file if needed. Clean and check the threads in your hub before new bearings go in.

Here's a screenshot again from SOHC4 member Evanphi's build thread. (I hope these guys don't mind being quoted)

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
After almost 3 weeks I've received the two bearing retainer tools and what is the result? Absolutely nothing! Both retainers still sit in the hub as if they are welded into it. I've used the tools with a 1/2" breaker bar extended by steel tube after heating it up. Nothing, absolutely nothing... I'll try again tomorrow but I really don't know what this is. And yes, I've drilled out the stakes... Think I'll have to order new retainers and oil seals and drill that **** out tomorrow. Grrr...:evil:
 

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That's my reason for punching 2 new stakes after replacing bearings on this type of wheel. While Loctite works great, there is no way for the next guy to know it's in there.
 

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Lay it on the side, soak with KROIL. Not PB Blaster, acetone/trans fluid, etc, KROIL. OVERNIGHT. The next day, heat up the hub for several minutes with a good heat gun. I guarantee it'll spin right out.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thanks for the suggestions but it is very difficult to import liquids that contain oils via air freigt to Azerbaijan. Anyway...I've had a second try on the bearing retainers and was at least sucessful on the front wheel retainer and just drilled the other one out. That's done but now I'm having another problem. I really can't get the rear sprocket out. I've tried different approaches to loosen the sprocket from the bolts but no movement at all. Then I saw an (alternative?) part on cmsnl which suggests that there is a rear sprocket which has fixed bolts (Nr. 3 in the picture). Can anyone confirm this? I just want to avoid to damage the dampers with too much heat as they are little pricey with 20 Euros per piece(!). If this is the case and the sprocket has to come out with the fixed bolts, what would be the best option to loosen them? The sprocket is definitely worn and needs a replacment.

honda-cb450k5-1972-usa-rear-wheel_bighu0029f6016_6cdc.jpg
 

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There's a large snap ring #22 or #23 (can't zoom clearly) that needs to be removed to release the sprocket from the hub. The 4 sprocket studs aren't fixed in place, they slip fit into the rubber dampers.
These studs have a smooth cylindrical end behind the sprocket with two flats that you can get a wrench on to break the nuts loose.
0004731_rear-sprocket-bolt-nut-set-fits-0269-sprockets-trail-bikes-set.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
There's a large snap ring #22 or #23 (can't zoom clearly) that needs to be removed to release the sprocket from the hub. The 4 sprocket studs aren't fixed in place, they slip fit into the rubber dampers.
These studs have a smooth cylindrical end behind the sprocket with two flats that you can get a wrench on to break the nuts loose.
View attachment 278850
Yeah, I‘ve seen that little snap ring ;-)
My question was if anyone has ever seen a sprocket with fixed studs as the cms drawing suggests with no 3 (red circle) because my sprocket seems to be one with the studs. If so I really have to think how to get it out.
 
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