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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I'm knee deep in the Honda turn signal indicator problem. I've done some digging and it seems to be a known problem especially with older Honda's converting to new led turn signal indicators. It looks like my 1982 Honda CM450's operate on alternating wire design for the turn signal circuit. Positives turn to negatives depending on which left or right turn signal is used. It becomes interesting when you try to upgrade these older bikes to one directional leds because the indicator does not work correctly and I'm also getting weird backfeed because the circuit is setup to alternate throughout the turn signals.

So I'm trying to wrap my head around the extent of the problem. I have installed a new led flasher relay and have gotten most of the signals working correctly. I'll probably end up doing a video on this because I didn't really see a great one that address a full led conversion, meaning all indicator, signals, and relay with details on how to overcome the alternating problem and the proper rewiring strategy.

First what I'm trying to do:

Hook up and replace all halogen bulbs on the turn signal circuit with leds.

IMG_2516.jpg

Here is the current factory turn signal circuit the best I understand it.

IMG_2517.jpg

Here is more details on the alternating current that creates problems when trying to replace with leds.

IMG_2518.jpg IMG_2519.jpg

So what I'm struggling to understand is how the orange and sky blue wires coming out of the handle bar toggle switch can be hooked up with leds. There are four main wires in question coming out of the handle bar toggle switch. (Orange), (Orange/white), (sky blue), (sky blue/ white) The factory setup has an orange running to a halogen turn signal and a orange/white running out and the same for the sky blue side. When you flip the toggle signal switch it alternates 12 volts from orange/white to the orange wire.

I did have the turn signals working by only hooking up the orange and sky blue wire to the positive leads to the front turn signals and leaving the O/W and SB/W wires disconnected but I got some feedback current on one the right signal sides. I think I could probably put a directional stop diode at the indicator and hook up a separate ground to the led lead to fix this. I not sure if I just want to leave the o/w & sb/w wires disconnected though. Seems like I should hook them up to something?

turn sig wiring.JPG

More info on this in my project log: http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-project-logs/108610-1982-cm450e-indianapolis-build-6.html
 

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I have never heard of the handlebar toggle having an ac/dc converter in it ... is that really a thing?

As for feedback issues ... why not just get a 3 prong flasher and wire the indicator light off that ?

If the habdlebar really is changing to AC... get some small ac/dv converters that output 12v... not the most efficient; but cheap abd works.

Have you measured the wires? And you're getting ac current? What voltage?

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The fact that you're getting light of the LEDs makes me doubt the alternating current thing

... are they flickering at 60 hertz?
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I did not mean AC from the toggle! I meant that the factory wires switch from 12 volts positive then when you switch the toggle the other way it's 0 volts and possibly a ground. Still DC voltage, but the single orange wire for example is 0 volts (ground) when not being used and then also 12 volts when the toggle is activated. The factory wiring has both a orange on one end of the halogen turn light and a orange/white on the other end and they switch from being +12v to ground depending on the turn signal position. It looks like the solid orange wire feed directly into the turn signal indicator and that's where I believe the cross voltage is activating both front signals. I tried hooking up the new led signals same as the factory but it did not work. But when I disconnected the o/w and Lb/w wires from the toggle switch and just connected the front signal to their own separate ground wires, then I got almost perfect signal operation except for the feedback on one side. I think the feedback is coming from the indicator area.

Had an idea I'm going to go test!
 

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Ok just disconnected the indicator entirely and I have perfect turn signal operation all around! This means the indicator is the problem mostly and I guess I'll just abandon the orange/ white and blue/ white wires altogether. Guess they're not needed in this setup:-?
Or, as above ... get a 3 prong winker... and wire the indicator off the third prong.

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So for the flasher relay, I got a little confused at first and got the manufacture's diagram to see how it would be hooked up and to see what the extra 3rd wire was on the led relay. The led relay had 3 prongs titled E B L I think they stand for Earth (ground), Battery (+12v), and Lights (whatever lights need powered) my case turn signals! So the 3rd extra wire on this relay was just a ground like the diagram above shows. When I hooked up like this everything worked perfectly in terms of the flashers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
that's why I like the simplicity of hand signals on mine... :lol: :lol: (sorry, couldn't resist)
If I had not spent a bunch of money on new leds signals perhaps. But you know I'm going for that knight rider look:D and plus safety first!
 

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I’m having a strange issue with mine also. I replaced the main harness due to a short I couldn’t find ($20 on eBay wasn’t worth the trouble). I put it on the bike and wired in the front turn signals, and snipped the tail light harness to fit the custom one I made. (Not wired up in the rear yet). I turned the ignition on to check the front operation and the turn signal wires completely melted.
 
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