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Discussion Starter #1
As a noob, and a lurker for the past couple of months, I have found this forum immensely helpful. But, now I'm stuck on my project and am hoping I can get some specific help.

First the background; In July I acquired a cl175k0 from my father-in-law. He claims it was running when it was put away 20 years ago. Since then it has just sat in an enclosed shop and collected dust, waiting for the day I would bring it home. I had high hopes for the restoration, but have now hit a wall.

So far I have, in no particular order;
cleaned gas tank and installed new fuel lines with inline fuel filters
taken the carbs apart and cleaned them 3 times
replaced points, condenser, and spark plugs
adjusted valves
adjusted timing
changed oil
installed a new battery
adjusted carb floats (although the recommended 28mm in my manual seemed odd)
replaced various non-mechanical parts (ie mirrors, clutch handle, etc.)

And now, it won't run. I have gone through several stages of not running. At one point I had it running, but only on one cylinder. Recently I have had it running but the idle was incredibly rough, and as soon as I gave it some throttle it would die. Readjusted valves, and now it won't start. Feels somewhat "tight" and a new chirping sound has appeared when I kick it over. Worried that the valves were too tight but if anything they are a little loose for the ridiculously small gap.

So, I am stuck with no ideas of where to go next. Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to answer as many questions as possible to rule out some things. Thanks in adavance for any advice.
 

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I assume that you have checked for gas in the float bowls by unscrewing the drain screws and you have checked for spark?
As long as you set everything that you mentioned correctly it should run. It has to be something simple and maybe even a forehead slapper. Like the fuel petcok in the off rather than reserve position. I know someone that did that one time when I ,,,,,, HE had low fuel in the tank.
Don
 

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Discussion Starter #3
gas in float bowls-check
spark-yes except the left seems to get fouled often
petcock- doesn't shut off even if I want it to (bad seal)

I'm hopeful that it's a forehead slapper, I don't mind feeling stupid as long as I can get this thing going........
 

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Sensei
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First, you'll need to remove the tank... a petcock that won't close generally leads to fuel in the oil.... Smell the dipstick to check for that....ANY fuel smell at all, change oil again....... My sloper fouls the plugs and won't run if I "accidently" leave the petcock on, so yours is probably doing the same.... IMHO, "modern" NGK plugs are worthless once they foul... I never clean/dry them, I replace them.......

You did adjust the valves at TDC on the compression stroke for each cylinder separately....Right?......
While we're there, what's the compression PSI?
And, did you check the timing/spark advance mechanism with a timing strobe, or just static time it...?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think I smell some gas so I will change oil tomorrow. It's hard to know for sure because with a leaky petcock everything tends to smell like gasoline. Long term what are my options for the petcock, I haven't found anywhere to order a new one, but I also don't want to be dealing with this problem over and over? Would that really keep it from starting?

I think I adjusted the valves on the right stroke, on the other stroke they were tight so I just adjusted them when that side was loose. (again total nooby here)

Also, someone on another forum suggested that the 28mm adjustment on the carb float was too much, any thoughts?

I have never checked my compression with a guage as I don't have one, but just anectdotally putting my finger over the spark plug hole, it seems to have plenty of compression. As far as timing goes I have just done it statically, mainly because I can't get it idling long enough to use a timing strobe. My point gap is a little off, too big, but I can't get it any closer.


Thanks again.
 

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hebron13 said:
.... Long term what are my options for the petcock, I haven't found anywhere to order a new one, but I also don't want to be dealing with this problem over and over? Would that really keep it from starting?
I don't know if this is for the right year or not but the point is that you can usually find a petcock on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-CL ... ccessories

hebron13 said:
I have never checked my compression with a guage as I don't have one, but just anectdotally putting my finger over the spark plug hole, it seems to have plenty of compression. As far as timing goes I have just done it statically, mainly because I can't get it idling long enough to use a timing strobe. My point gap is a little off, too big, but I can't get it any closer.
Finger over the plug hole won't tell you squat. If you don't want to buy one, usually the AutoParts store have loaner tools and you get one from them, sometimes for free.
 

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Sensei
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Just re-read your post...... Float height of the PW-22 carbs is 19.5mm (Sloper) and the later 175's (verts) were set at 21mm.....SO, 28mm is definately wrong.... On the slopers, the float height adjustments are made with the centerline of the jets between 50 and 70 degrees off vertical, needle and seat at the high point.....

My primary worry is that the "tight" and "chirping sound" indicate Camshaft and journal wear/damage from lack of lubrication (gassy oil isn't a good lubricant)...This is a somewhat common problem on these older bikes... And what oil are you running?.... Should be straight 30 wt Non-detergent in the summer....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm running straight 30wt but as you said gassy oil is not a good lubricant.

I will change oil and re-set floats and see where that leaves me. I will be sure to update when done.

Thanks.
 

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Sensei
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Just for fun, (and piece of mind), add a new set of sparkplugs to your replace list.....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
new plugs, changed the oil, adjusted the floats, and managed to get it running, albeit rough. went for a ride and it sputtered and died. Now no spark. I used to get some "sparks" at the points, but now am not. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
 

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Probably a "dead" battery.... These Hondas won't run without a good strong power supply......They just sputter and die....
You might try "jumping" it off a car battery just to see if it will start and run....
 

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Discussion Starter #12
bought a multimeter, battery is fully charged. No spark at the points or plugs. What should I use the multimeter to test, and how?

I think I finally have the other issues solved, but without spark it's a moot point, Help!
 

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Key on.... test for voltage at Black wire leading to coil (unplug and test harness side, not coil side)..... Other wire (common) of multimeter (set to 20 VDC) to ground.....If you get voltage, unplug coil wire that goes to points, plug black back in and read through coil.....
No voltage at Black harness wire: ignition switch is off or bad....
Volts at black, No voltage through coil, coil is open (bad)....
If Voltage at all above,but still no spark, points (engine)are NOT grounded, or continuously grounded (check where wire hooks to point, if opening point has zero effect)
to check, Plug points back in, test V at points moving contact with the points held open....
One of these tests should tell you something... IF not, The bike should run (kickstarting) if you just hook a jumper from the B+ to the black coil wire with condenser and points connected as usual (correctly)....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well I found the problem, the points were grounding out. Easy fix, but discovered a much bigger problem. My cam shaft doesn't just rotate evenly, it moves around and is rubbing up against the points plate throwing off my timing constantly. But the bigger issue is why is my cam doing this? I'm prepared for the worse and don't mind doing whatever labor is needed, but if I have to replace everything in the top end this might be the end of the line for me and this bike. Any ideas on what needs to be fixed?

I hope you understand what I mean, I will post pictures later.
 

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Sensei
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I understand EXACTLY!... This is usually a sign that the left journal and left bearing surface of the camshaft are worn (FUBAR)......Somehow, they weren't getting oiled properly...Find out why before replacing those parts....(oil pump, oil filter, filter cover on wrong?....Blocked passages...out of oil?...Thinned oil?....)
The good part is it's not a hard fix......
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Do you think this could be part of my issue from the gas in the oil?

What parts do I need to purchase to replace, and what are the odds they are available?

(I'm going to owe you big time Sprint)
 

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That IS possible, but not 100% definate....
I would replace both journals and the camshaft, although the Right side journal will be harder to locate (same part as a CB/CL 160)and you MAY not absolutely need it.... The left side journal and the camshaft are the same as the later "vertical" models used, so will be more plentiful...... Probably about $100 in parts and gaskets... 1 hour to fix...... I probably can help you out on the parts.....I think I have a "spare" vert engine laying about.....
Do you have a manual, or a parts book for the sloper? I have the manual on CD, and a hard copy parts book I can scan pertinent pages from and e-mail to you....The 160 manual will tell you everything you'll need to know, if you got it offline when Bill posted it....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have the cb/cl 125/175 workshop manual which seems to have a pretty good section on it but that is all.

Any parts I could buy from you would be a great help, and I will just search for what you don't have. I really want to get this thing running as I feel pretty invested at this point.

Thanks again.
 

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Another thought.... Join the Yahoo f-160 group....... They are 160 racers in portland and seattle, and have contacts for 160/175 sloper parts.....A preview with pics and links from the "GroupW" site (f-160 is their Q&A forum)...... http://www.groupwracing.com/
...scroll and click on the left column.... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #20
thanks.
applied for the group, hopefully I'll find some parts. In the meantime I thing I will take the engine out of the bike tonight, pop off the top, and see what I'm dealing with.

(I wish I would have found that site earlier and just done an electronic ignition instead of wasting money on points and a condenser)
 
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