[MNellis]

A while back I posted a question re: the ability to remove the cylinders with the engine in the frame. Somone (Bill or Steve?) posted that the engine needed to be removed.

I wanted to follow-up and confirm this is a correct statement. My Clymer manual talks about removing the cylinders and the description makes it sound like it can be removed with the engine in place. It says, "remove tank, remove cam covers, plugs and cam master link. Remove head nuts and lift head off. Later on it says, "remove cylinder head as described earlier, lift off cylinders.

I appreciate all the help all the experienced mechanics provide us noobs here, but I'll be pulling this motor out myself and if I can do it without the cylinders and head in place and also have the opportunity to inspect the cylinders, hone and replace the rings without removing the engine, then I'd like to give that a try first.

Thanks again.

 

[tbpmusic]

Mike -

If we're talking about a 350, then you have to pull the engine to get the head off, sorry.

 

[MNellis]

Mike -

If we're talking about a 350, then you have to pull the engine to get the head off, sorry.

Opps, sorry, I am referring to a 450 K4.

 

[tbpmusic]

Definitely you have to pull the engine - no way can you get the head off in-frame on a 450 either.
Move the Clymer to the outhouse where it belongs.

I think Chris and I had a thread sometime in the past month or two discussing how to get a 450 engine out - it's not hard, probably one of the easiest Hondas to do it on (other than the sheer weight of the brute).
But I'm 61, and I can yank a 450 out of the frame in just a minute or so. So if I can do it, you can.

 

[MNellis]

Definitely you have to pull the engine - no way can you get the head off in-frame on a 450 either.
Move the Clymer to the outhouse where it belongs.

But, But, But.....it's all I have right now until I print off the manual on your CD! Hey WAIT! One of the 450 manuals you sent on the CD was a Clymer manual! Ok, Ok, I'll toss the Clymer into the corner and refer here on out on nothing but the annotated Factory Manaul.

I think Chris and I had a thread sometime in the past month or two discussing how to get a 450 engine out - it's not hard, probably one of the easiest Hondas to do it on (other than the sheer weight of the brute).
But I'm 61, and I can yank a 450 out of the frame in just a minute or so. So if I can do it, you can.

I remember that conversation and I've also review your annotations re: laying on the tank and lifting. But, remember, you're probably a spry 61 while I'm an old, fat 53 that looks kinda funny riding around on a 350 anyway.

Thanks.

 

[tbpmusic]

Maybe I am a little hard on Clymer.
It has value as a supplement to the Honda manual, but I'd be wary of depending on it as a sole source of info. And I found that the 500T manual is excellent, much better photos and explanations, and it's essentially the same bike.
I'm not sure that even the Honda manual explicitly says "pull the engine first", it's sort of an implied thing. But it's something you'd figure out real quick if you tried to remove the head in frame.
In most cases my annotations are just further info in areas that I thought the manual didn't deal with deeply enough (or not at all). I don't believe I went into the mechanics of pulling the engine - just remove the bolts, lift up a couple inches, exit left....
One of my problems has always been that things that seem obvious to me are not obvious at all to some folks - the price paid for overfamiliarity with the bike due to 40+ years spent working on 450's.
Like timing up the cams - seems patently obvious and simple to me, since I've dome it so many times - but is the single most troublesome job on these engines for most people.
If I could just remember the first time I did it, I'd probably recall how confusing it was.
But I have trouble remembering what I had for dinner last night, much less something I did in 1966..........
But, that's what this newsgroup is for, after all.....

 

[MNellis]

Maybe I am a little hard on Clymer.
It has value as a supplement to the Honda manual, but I'd be wary of depending on it as a sole source of info. And I found that the 500T manual is excellent, much better photos and explanations, and it's essentially the same bike.
I'm not sure that even the Honda manual explicitly says "pull the engine first", it's sort of an implied thing. But it's something you'd figure out real quick if you tried to remove the head in frame.
In most cases my annotations are just further info in areas that I thought the manual didn't deal with deeply enough (or not at all). I don't believe I went into the mechanics of pulling the engine - just remove the bolts, lift up a couple inches, exit left....

Don't sell yourself short, you did a nice job of explaining how you lay over the tank and reach down to grab the motor. For something that weighs about 140 lbs that's a good technique to keep from screwing something up on our old backs.

One of my problems has always been that things that seem obvious to me are not obvious at all to some folks - the price paid for overfamiliarity with the bike due to 40+ years spent working on 450's.
Like timing up the cams - seems patently obvious and simple to me, since I've dome it so many times - but is the single most troublesome job on these engines for most people.
If I could just remember the first time I did it, I'd probably recall how confusing it was.
But I have trouble remembering what I had for dinner last night, much less something I did in 1966..........
But, that's what this newsgroup is for, after all.....

Yea, I know what you mean. I've been building and racing all different types of motorcycles and cars for a lot of years but I don't consider myself a mechanic. However, when my brother in-law calls me up and I can walk him through a problem on his Suzuki Intruder it feels good.

It's good to know that someone can time the 450 cams in their sleep. I can usually figure that stuff out (unless someone has installed a decomp cam in a non-decomp YZ426 motor), but it's nice to a forum where you can get help.