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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, my new to me 68 cl350 would not run after clearing out the tank and improving fuel flow. Won't idle, can't get it up to 2k rpm. Have to work throttle just to keep it running.
Carbs are rebuilt. Verified fuel flow. I went ahead and ordered coils, condenser, points from Common.
While awaiting the arrival of my parts, I thought I would get some practice tuning.
Checked compression and both cylinders at 160.
Decided to skip valve adjustment and just see where I was in points adjustment.
Well my tester light stays on a lot.
I rotated alternator around to compression stroke and stopped at the LF indicator at the prescribed spot. Adjusted points until the just activated the light and locked down. Left advance centered on the notch.
Light stays on for significant amount of the rotation. Tried moving the advance forward or back and readjusting the points with no change.
So decided to wait until parts come in and just swapped out some of bolts with the Allen head kit from Common.
What am I doing wrong. I have read the honda manual on this process and watched a couple of videos. Thought I was working the right direction.


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Sensei
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IF you remain connected as in the pics, your test light should (and will) be on a lot because the points only close briefly and reopen to fire the coils... (How briefly depends on how wide you gap the points)

The problem with this is that your coils are constantly powered, which can cause them to burn-out if the process takes too long.....

IF you connect the test light to battery negative and an unplugged point wire (insulated against grounding by placing it on a folded shop rag), the key does NOT even have to be on, so NO risk to the coils...... The light will then only be on when the points are closed, and will/should JUST go OUT as LF reaches the index alignment.......Both point wires unplugged from the coils also prevents "back-feeding" (false On , but dim) through the other set of points, the coils windings, and their common Black/white wire connection.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just following a couple of videos from Common Motors and MotorcycleNut. Both attach the lead to the nut (hot) on the points and ground to the engine/frame.
What I don't know (which could fill endless volumes) is (if properly timed) will the light turn on and then off as soon as the LF or R lines cross the index point on the alternator on the compression stroke?
Also, my timing line on the alternator is covered up, so I am just using the center of the appropriate mount as a reference. Can I scrape away any of that cover material without damage to the alternator.
 

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66Sprint's method is using the points as a "SWITCH" to Power the Light.
Not to actually charge and power the coils.
Doing it this way eliminates the possibility of accidentally burning up the coils from overcharging/overheating them.

The results for timing are "IDENTICAL" all you want to do is find that spot in the rotation of all the motor parts where the points open/close.

When the Points are closed (which as he said is a brief moment - IE: not overcharging the coils) the coils charge.
When they OPEN that charge is released via the Plug Wire to the Spark Plugs as it find its way to ground.

The real trick is that the Right Side is timed by adjusting its Point GAP.
You need to check that once that position is determined that that the GAP is NOT out of Spec Range.
If it is you need to back and make a small adjustment to the Left Side Gap and go back and forth until both sets of points are TIMED - AND - Within GAP Spec Range.

If the GAP is too large (out of Spec Range) the points will not be closed long enough to fully charge the coils - especially at high RPM's.
Remember the GAP is a RANGE not a specific measurement.
I read somewhere that .001" of gap equal approx. 7 degs of timing.

QUESTION - Why is your Stator NOT bolted down.
In the pic it is using the cover screws to hold it in place.
There should be (3) bolts in the other (3) holes that hold it in place.
Is it a replacement Stator IE: Ricks Motor Sports? If it is I don't think they cut the indication mark in it for the timing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replies again.
Those bolts you see sticking out are the cover bolts. I had just stuck them in there to keep from losing them. I think that is what you are referencing.
On the right side, I thought it was mimicking the left side. Rotate stator until the R index lines up with the stator index and then adjust points until test light just turns on.
Should the gap at both left and right sides at compression at the index be the designated gap setting? I am probably making what is supposedly the simplest tune up process way too hard.
 

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Sensei
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You CAN'T accurately time it with the stator unbolted....It MUST be fixed in the correct orientation or the index will be off.....
 

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Those bolts you see sticking out are the cover bolts. I had just stuck them in there to keep from losing them. I think that is what you are referencing.
Yendor is referring to the other three vacant holes on your stator, they are where its bolted to the engine. There are six holes on the unit, three to fix it to the engine and three to fix the cover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Yendor is referring to the other three vacant holes on your stator, they are where its bolted to the engine. There are six holes on the unit, three to fix it to the engine and three to fix the cover.
Well, I will be. Perhaps that is part of my issue. Guessing the same size bolts as the cover. will check cmsnl and see what I can find. SCREW, PAN, 6X28 - 93500-060280A
20190423_192442.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You CAN'T accurately time it with the stator unbolted....It MUST be fixed in the correct orientation or the index will be off.....
What is the likelihood that if I simply procure three M6x28mm bolts and bolt the stator down as it stands, it will be in correct orientation? Or is there another step/process I need to do?
 

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The Stator "SHOULD" be self aligning when the bolts are in place.

Note: they will be PAN Heads not Counter Sink type heads.
Also they will be shorter then the Cover Bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The Stator "SHOULD" be self aligning when the bolts are in place.

Note: they will be PAN Heads not Counter Sink type heads.
Also they will be shorter then the Cover Bolts.
the drawing references a 28mm length m6 pan head. I might check my batch of Common Motors bolt assortment I bought to see if they have three for that purpose.
Sounds like tonight, I am just going to drain my tank, pull it and prep for ignition components to arrive to be installed.
 

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Other option is to find a fastener seller near you, m6x28 isn't that weird of a size.

Also I'd take a look at the wires running out of the stator to make sure the stator isn't rotated around in some weird way. Compare to old builds of 350 engines to confirm orientation. You might need to pull the sprocket cover to get a better look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I found this image of a cl350 with stator exposed and sprocket cover off.
However, if the stator had been moving, you would think the side cover would be some different orientation. It was properly aligned when I first encountered the money pit and later after trying to get it installed.
Money pit is relative.

stator.sprocket.JPG
 

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I found this image of a cl350 with stator exposed and sprocket cover off.
However, if the stator had been moving, you would think the side cover would be some different orientation. It was properly aligned when I first encountered the money pit and later after trying to get it installed.
Money pit is relative.

View attachment 280246
The stator is NOT in that picture...The rotor is.....

easy mnemonic... Rotor rotates, stator stays in place.....
 

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Yes there's a bit of terminology confusion here, I also don't know how the 350 stator wires run, I'm thinking of a 160 where the wires run out like below.
Note that the stator and cover are both unbolted here and viewed from the back. This would be what the rotor sees. When installed the stator bolts to the cover, the cover bolts to the engine.
IMG_6783.jpg

Here is a 350 (SL) showing the wiring running out that way plus bolts holding the stator to the cover.
http://www.jimphoenix.com/wp-content/gallery/sl350-engine-rebuild/ah9997.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Bolted down the stator this evening. If you notice from the image I don't seem to have the index mark on the stator.
Also on the advance unit doesn't the line on the drum essentially line up with the install slot? In my case it was not. I pulled it and cleaned it up some and reassembled.


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I CAN see a suitable index pointer in the pic....It's at the center of the 11:00 positioned winding, almost touching the rotor, and is just a slight outward point... IT IS in the correct spot which is all that counts......
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That was my guess, but was looking for the line on the stator.
Will get back on the tune up next week. Camping this weekend. Parts should be in so can start fresh. In any event the lower screw on the right side points is stripped. Thankfully not the base.


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