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Here is Bills guide to sorting out your newly aquired Honda Twin, its been modified as a word document so that it can be printed out and kept with all your other valuable reference notes :cool:
 

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We are not worthy! Wait a minute, you're NOT Alice Cooper? :lol:
Seriously, tip of the hat to ya, Mate. :D
Do you capitalize the word mate??? :oops: IDK
 

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this is a great guide - my only concern is the suggestion that ATF is an acceptable substitute for fork oil - I've heard that the detergents and/or additives in modern ATF will eat fork seals.

discuss. :)
 

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superwesman said:
this is a great guide - my only concern is the suggestion that ATF is an acceptable substitute for fork oil

That's right out of the Honda Manuals.
Personally I never liked the stuff, it's nasty.
I use fork oil in my forks, oddly enough...........
 

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the honda manual was written 40 years ago before there was dedicated fork oil...ditch the ATF and use fork oil.

I might use ATF if it was all I had and the world was about to end if I didn't... but otherwise, no don't use it.
 

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outobie said:
the honda manual was written 40 years ago before there was dedicated fork oil...ditch the ATF and use fork oil.

Nonsense - there was indeed fork oil 40 years ago, I remember trying many different weights to optimize my Cerianis back then, as well as using it in customer bikes.........
 

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I hope you're not referring to PJ-1 :p
 

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tbpmusic said:
No, my issue is that it was made to sound as if I personally had recommended ATF, that's not the case at all.
ah - I'm sorry about that - it wasn't my intent to point any fingers - I only know not to use ATF because I mentioned to someone else that I had read it in the manual and he corrected me and I just wanted to pass along what I'd heard :)

-w
 

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ATF has and had detergents in it...detergents cause frothing from the pumping action, and frothing kills damping properties. it shouldn't be used.

all the manufacturerers recommended it back then just because it had about the right viscosity. if you talk to suspension experts they'll tell you that the fluid with the best damping properties is actually distilled water. Unfortunately water is also highly corrosive. it's probably a moot point since the rest of the suspension components are such crap but modern suspension fluids are much better than anything that was available as recently as 20 years ago.
 

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Bill - This is a great document; well written and easy to understand. Thank you.
 

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Firstly: this document... is awesome. I wish I'd had it on my first buy, in a big way.

But with that in mind, and I'd hate to do it, and you all may disagree with me, but I'd warn against calling bad compression a top end job necessarily. I've bought a couple bikes now where an adjustment to the valves had been missed by previous owners, probably because they thought they had a top end problem, and in a few minutes with a simple adjustment a tight valve was brought back to its proper place, compression went back to where it should be, and the thing was good to go. Bad compression can be a show stopper (in a big way) and should be taken seriously, but it can also net you a really cheap, simple fix, fully functioning bike. Stuck valves are my favorite finds.

Now a leak down tester, that would make life sweet...

But I do feel "it will be $150-$300" and "stop now, you have some serious problems" is misleading if valves haven't been accounted for.
 

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outobie said:
ATF has and had detergents in it...detergents cause frothing from the pumping action, and frothing kills damping properties. it shouldn't be used.

all the manufacturerers recommended it back then just because it had about the right viscosity. if you talk to suspension experts they'll tell you that the fluid with the best damping properties is actually distilled water. Unfortunately water is also highly corrosive. it's probably a moot point since the rest of the suspension components are such crap but modern suspension fluids are much better than anything that was available as recently as 20 years ago.
Honda didn't recommend ATF because it was about the right weight. they recommended it because it was the right application.

Suspension Experts didn't say don't use ATF. They say use the right weight and type oil. In addition, many if not most forks today are not damper rod forks. The are valved damping, with is a different technology. The fork technology has changed, so while ATF was fine for the Damper rods, it is not usually the best choice for valved dampers.

Detergents don't cause frothing. They remove and suspend dirt. Detergents aren't "Soap". Automatic transmissions cannot stand oil frothing either. ATF fluid is essentially 10 weight hydraulic fluid. Their are friction modifiers and such to handle the clutch plates in the transmission, but they do not froth any more than fork oil. The fork is not as hard as a transmission on oil. Transmissions have gears that shear the oil molecules. the fork doesn't. The transmission has clutches that slip and add heat to the oil, a lot more heat than a fork does.

The desirable qualities of fork oil and transmission fluid are the same, except in one respect. ATF only comes in a single weight. If something other than 10 weight is desired, then Fork Oil is a better choice. Fork oil allows 5 weight, or 15 weight, or other weight that ATF doesn't.

Nothing wrong with fork oil at all. I use it in my CB750. Nothing wrong with Dexron ATF, I use it in my CB360.

You can use ATF or 10 weight fork oil in your forks. If you want some other weight, then fork oil is the way to go.

It is more important that you change the oil regularly, then whether you use a the factory recommended ATF or a dedicated Fork Oil.
 

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40 years ago there was sewing machine oil, it was the best stuff I found for the forks in an ducati 450 I was once involved with..
 

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this is a great guide - my only concern is the suggestion that ATF is an acceptable substitute for fork oil - I've heard that the detergents and/or additives in modern ATF will eat fork seals.

discuss. :)
I've been using ATF in forks for 50 years my own and professionally. Haven't noted a problem with seals. ATF has good anti-foam, EP, and detergent characteristics.

I've put ATF in the forks of at least 3 KLR650's so far this month so just my $0.02.

Sorry if new people aren't expected to offer opinion but will do so + try to provide context.
 
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