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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey gentlemen,

I was trying to time my '72 CB450 and the wire I had on the end cam off and bam it was gone. I still have the exhaust side but the intake side is gone! Am I totally screwed? Does the top end have to come off? If so, what does that entail? Will I need to remove the cams and a their related covers/journals or can the entire head just be removed?

This is quite annoying...

Thanks,

-Matt
 

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Easy mistake to make Matt. I always tie thin ropes to the chain ends until it's riveted. Try fishing it up with a magnet-on-a-stick if you got one or maybe try fishing it up with a wire with a hook on the end. I am not sure but I think somebody here suggested in a thread to turn the engine upside down and rattle it so the chain fall back out. Don't know if that would work.

When the cam chain is broken it's only 4 nuts to remove the whole head but then you probably still have to do some fishing down in the crank case. You also need a new head gasket if you ramove the head.

Good luck with your fishing expedition. :D
 

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I do this every time. I use a coat hanger with a bent tip to fish it out. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the hints fellas, I'll try the coat hanger trick; my magnet on a stick was wielding no results. I'm very frustrated as I was fairly sure I had that wire on that damn link pretty well.

Well, we'll see how this goes...

-Matt
 

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I like to think of it as fishing. Be patient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I had to pull the head to get the chain. Once the head was off it was a ten second job. I then put everything back together to include the master link before I noticed the PB blaster I sprayed in the cylinders last night had started to weep through the cylinder base gasket...wow that was infuriating. Whoever suggested that you buy two master links is a genius. Just REPULLED the top end. Now I need to either go buy, or figure out how to compress the rings so I can get the cylinders back on. Man this thing is just driving me bonkers!
 

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MayerMR said:
.... Now I need to either go buy, or figure out how to compress the rings so I can get the cylinders back on. .
I use chopsticks - free at any chineeze joint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
tbpmusic said:
MayerMR said:
.... Now I need to either go buy, or figure out how to compress the rings so I can get the cylinders back on. .
I use chopsticks - free at any chineeze joint.
That's funny you mention chinese joints...I just ordered chinese! I was able to call and ask them to include some! Now do you mind explaining how the heck I would use them to hold in the rings?
 

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MayerMR said:
tbpmusic said:
MayerMR said:
.... Now I need to either go buy, or figure out how to compress the rings so I can get the cylinders back on. .
I use chopsticks - free at any chineeze joint.
That's funny you mention chinese joints...I just ordered chinese! I was able to call and ask them to include some! Now do you mind explaining how the heck I would use them to hold in the rings?
You use the big blunt end to gently push each ring into its groove, one by one.
The flare in the bottom of the cylinder helps to guide them in, a bit of gentle tapping (with your hand) on top of the jugs gets them to slip down.
Never broke a ring in my life......
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok I'll try that, hopefully it works. It putting the cylinders back on a on man job or should I try to get a second set of hands to help me out?

Also, is it abnormal for the cams to be really difficult to spin in the journals? I mean it is TOUGH to spin them, but they will spin...I just don't remember when I pulled the engine apart whether or not they were easy to rotate...

Timing the engine has gone from a few hour task to more than two days!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It worked!! The cylinders are back on. I'm on a lesson-learning trip today; don't drop the cam chain into the crankcase, put cloths over your nicely painted engine, don't apply Hondabond to both sides of the cylinder base gasket and then fiddle with the cylinders/pistons forever before you can set the cylinders off...it sets up reallllll fast.

Well the engine is back together and the timing chain BACK on. It's still really tough to turn the engine over...those cam journals really are holding onto those cams...normal or no?

Another issue I ran into...all three of the wires that are running from the alternator have either cracked or just plain missing insullation. I don't really know whether or not it's a big issue because the bike was running with it like this before and the leads themselves are exposed to oil...but I cleaned them and wrapped them in electrical tape as tightly as possible. Not sure if this is ok or if I should just take them out and redo the whole wires? I think I know the answer but I'm just hoping there is at least one thing on this bike that doesn't make me do extra work...ugh!

Appreciate everyone's help!

-Matt
 

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MayerMR said:
Well the engine is back together and the timing chain BACK on. It's still really tough to turn the engine over...those cam journals really are holding onto those cams...normal or no?

-Matt
No, it's not normal - the cams should turn pretty easily without the chain on there - at least during the portion of their rotation where a valve is not opening.
Did you measure the end play on the cams before buttoning things up??
 

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Glad you got the job done Matt.
I'm not a pro engine builder but the cams beeing hard to turn even if the lobes are pointing away from the cam followers does NOT sound good in my ears. Could it be that the new gaskets under the cam end covers are so thin that the covers squeeze the cams?
If the wires look like you describe them I would replace them for peace of mind. Remember, if they short out it will always be when riding at night in the middle of nowhere. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
tbpmusic said:
No, it's not normal - the cams should turn pretty easily without the chain on there - at least during the portion of their rotation where a valve is not opening.
Did you measure the end play on the cams before buttoning things up??
I did not...I wasn't aware that was something that needed to be done. Probably more importantly though, I don't know how to measure that or what it is supposed to be?

Znabb said:
Glad you got the job done Matt.
I'm not a pro engine builder but the cams beeing hard to turn even if the lobes are pointing away from the cam followers does NOT sound good in my ears. Could it be that the new gaskets under the cam end covers are so thin that the covers squeeze the cams?
If the wires look like you describe them I would replace them for peace of mind. Remember, if they short out it will always be when riding at night in the middle of nowhere. :lol:
I don't think it is the gaskets, they are actually a bit thicker than the originals...but only every so slightly.

I think I know the problem though...I had these covers chromed and the chromer submerged the entire piece into the plating solution. I think this added metal to the journals and regardless of my sanding the journals are no longer good.

I did set up the starter and the engine will turn over without issue. I sent my polisher an extra set of covers that I had from a parts bike and hopefully those will give me the proper size journals for this engine.

Just another darn delay before I can get this thing going again!
 

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MayerMR said:
I did not...I wasn't aware that was something that needed to be done. Probably more importantly though, I don't know how to measure that or what it is supposed to be?
.......
I think I know the problem though...I had these covers chromed and the chromer submerged the entire piece into the plating solution. I think this added metal to the journals and regardless of my sanding the journals are no longer good......
The cam end play is specified in the manual - if it's off, there are shims.
Any damage to the inside of the journal surface (that the cam actually contacts) will be di$a$trou$ .........
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well I suppose that these covers need to come back off then. Not really looking forward to that to be honest....

I'll look back into my clymer and try to find that section. Hopefully when I get these other covers in I'll be able to get my cams to spin freely and see if there is any play.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
On a side note:

Znabb, I was reading on the dynojet thread and you mentioned a "Cappellini paper oil filter conversion". I'm assuming this is for your 450 and if so where can I find some information on it? I googled but came up empty.

Thanks,

-Matt
 

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MayerMR said:
well I suppose that these covers need to come back off then. Not really looking forward to that to be honest....

I'll look back into my clymer and try to find that section. Hopefully when I get these other covers in I'll be able to get my cams to spin freely and see if there is any play.

0.002-0.014", measured between the cam "base" and the journal "face".
Sorry, no photo - maybe I'll add that to my Annotated Manual......
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks very much for that! I just called my polisher to follow up...number disconnected. Not a good sign. :?
 

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MayerMR said:
On a side note:

Znabb, I was reading on the dynojet thread and you mentioned a "Cappellini paper oil filter conversion". I'm assuming this is for your 450 and if so where can I find some information on it? I googled but came up empty.

Thanks,

-Matt
Matt, you find them here Cappellini and they have this interesting filter mod and many other unique parts.
 
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