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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, guys,


First of all, I know I could have asked this anywhere else but it regards my cb450 and you guys rock every single time!

So, my first question is: regarding the two oils in the picture, are these the same exact kind of oil (though made by two different companies)? What I'd like to know is if I'd be fine using the oil on the left, even though the one on the right says it's specifically made for 4 stroke bikes.

20181116_140439.jpg

My second question is this: my bike leaks a little bit of oil from the valve covers and from the camshaft covers. It literally leaves just a few drops of oil on the cilinder head's fins and a bit might drop onto the exhaust. Before I start opening the covers to change the gaskets, I'd just like to know if it is really dangerous to ride the bike like this e.g. if the oil might catch fire, etc. I've heard loads of stories about british bikes and american choppers leaking so I'd guess a tiny bit of oil would be fine. Will take pictures asap, just wanted some piece of mind :)

Thank you!
 

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The one on the left has the API CF rating, which is for Diesel engines; motorcycles that have the oil shared between the engine and transmission have similar requirements, so that should be OK. The one on the right has the JASO rating for motorcycle oils, so is certain to be OK in such engines.

The risk of a fire from an oil leak is mostly when the oil is trapped against the exhaust, turned to vapor/smoke, which then can ignite. A small amount smearing on the cooling fins shouldn't be a fire hazard. Just don't let it build up to become a fire hazard.
 

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I would avoid ether of these oils they are made for modern engines, you should use an oil that is 20/40 0r 20/50 grade or an oil that is intended for vintage motorcycles. The modern oils are too light (thin) when cold.
There is a lot of information on the net but most of it is put out by someone trying to sell oil, but there are some articles by enthusiasts who are only interested in which oil works best in vintage bikes, look for them.
 
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First off, oil isn't thinner when its cold. The 20W is not directly comparable to the 40. Very different measurements.
Second, you do want oil to be able to flow better when cold so it gets to your cam lobes/between bearing shells etc. faster when you start it up. This is especially important on a cb450.
Third, old school single weight oil is a thing of the past for a reason, why would you use one weight for two very different situations if you can have an oil that does both.

Here's reading from belray so you know I'm not making things up:
What Exactly Do The Multi-Visc Designations Mean? | Bel-Ray Company, Inc

The one difference between modern and vintage oils that may be necessary to pay attention to is the zinc content. Modern cars don't use metal on metal valves/rockers/cams so the zinc additives are added in lower quantities. I am not actually sure about the content of motorcycle specific/heavy diesel oils. I forget what conclusion I came to last time I went down that rabbit hole. edit: see post below

It's really more important to change and check your oil frequently, how many times on this forum have you seen a bike get a rebuild because it used synthetic vs conventional or 5w40 vs 10w40 all compared to blowing a hole in a piston from carb issues or shredding cam lobes/spinning bearings because oil was low, dirty or filled with gas.
 

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I would avoid ether of these oils they are made for modern engines, you should use an oil that is 20/40 0r 20/50 grade or an oil that is intended for vintage motorcycles. The modern oils are too light (thin) when cold.
There is a lot of information on the net but most of it is put out by someone trying to sell oil, but there are some articles by enthusiasts who are only interested in which oil works best in vintage bikes, look for them.
The owner's manual specifically recommends 10W-40 for general use, and 20W-40 for high temperatures. Single viscosity oils of 30 or 30W are for above 59F, 20 or 20W above 32F and below 59F, and 10W below 32F. So, 10W-40 for most conditions, 20W-50 for riding above 32F.
Diesel oils generally have higher zinc content than auto oils, as they do not have to worry about catalytic converters, but you have to read the data sheets carefully to confirm.
 

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I add Rislone engine oil supplement, with zinc.
Call me crazy, but I swear it dramatically improved my shifting, as well.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow, guys! Thank you very much for your answers!

I've given it an half hour read online and came to the conclusion that I should go with mineral oil (most folks say it's best for vintage pre-80s bikes) and have seen THIS ONE, which matches Honda's recommendation (10w40). I have also seen many recommending THIS but I can't find it in Europe (otherwise I'd be spending too much on shipping and customs).

Does anyone not recommend/anyone else recommend the Liqui Moly Oil 4 Stroke Mineral Oil 10w-40? Seems to be the best for the price in my case (Europe). I'd also hope that using a mineral oil (from what I read) would maybe reduce the leaks as, supposedly, the oil is able to 'coagulate' (?).

Regarding the addition of ZDDP, as it is a bit expensive, would the benefits exceed the extra cost by a lot?

Thank you very much!
 

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Make sure it is compatible with a wet clutch I suspect that the Moly is not. Forget the science and listen to the people who have used the product for long mileages with success.:p
Someone who can say I have used this oil for 80,000 miles is better than someone telling you why it should or should not work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Make sure it is compatible with a wet clutch I suspect that the Moly is not. Forget the science and listen to the people who have used the product for long mileages with success.:p
Someone who can say I have used this oil for 80,000 miles is better than someone telling you why it should or should not work.
Thank you, 45!

Well, you driving me away from the Liquimoly :( I've read good things everywhere about the Rotella T. Unfortunately, it would be very, very expensive with shipping and customs. Needed to find a more suitable alternative.

So, I've checked further and even asked a specialized oil store and they mentioned, as you guys, a 20w40/50 oil. Searching for classic/vintage specific oils, I arrived at the Castrol Classic 20w50. Turns out the sheet says wet clutches are excluded.
After yet another search, I found the Motul 20w50, for vintage engines after 1950. Did not find any counter regarding use with wet clutches. Does anyone find this suitable/unsuitable for a 72 CB450?

By the way, temperatures here would range from 16ºC, in the Winter, to 30ºC, in the Summer (60ºF to 86ºC).

As always, thank you, 45 and guys, for your patience and help!!
 

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Make sure it is compatible with a wet clutch I suspect that the Moly is not. Forget the science.
Ugh at least be consistent, you used "science" to say that moly isn't compatible with a wet clutch. I don't mean to be rude, but misinformation and dismissing the importance of scientific knowledge really grinds my gears.

Also liqui-moly is a brand name, not a description of the additive package
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liqui-Mo...66d0d0edf:m:mNhLSNIMzh0VdNVtbFoFGoQ:rk:1:pf:0
Same stuff with a description: Specifically says: Developed for use in air and water cooled engines with or without a wet clutch
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As far as the Motul brand goes, this is on that site you linked: https://www.motul.com/fr/en/products/3000-4t-20w50--2
Yes, Wintr, I am probably going with that - good for wet clutch and 100% mineral. Thank you.

I was indeed just trying to decide between the Motul 3000 4T 20W-50 and the Millers Oils Classic Pistoneeze 20W-50, because the latter is cheaper AND is formulated with ZDDP. Haven't, though, really read anywhere that the Millers is motorcycle specific and works well with wet clutches - hence the indecision.

Hopefully the Motul helps with the leaks. Will let you guys know how it goes, for the sake of keeping a history of which oils work with the 450 engine - in this case, the ones available in Europe.
 

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Ugh at least be consistent, you used "science" to say that moly isn't compatible with a wet clutch. I don't mean to be rude, but misinformation and dismissing the importance of scientific knowledge really grinds my gears.

Also liqui-moly is a brand name, not a description of the additive package
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liqui-Mo...66d0d0edf:m:mNhLSNIMzh0VdNVtbFoFGoQ:rk:1:pf:0
Same stuff with a description: Specifically says: Developed for use in air and water cooled engines with or without a wet clutch

Actually I said make sure it is compatible with a wet clutch.
When someone asks a simple question he dose not deserve a lecture on, in this case lubrication, what he wants is a simple answer such as use a mineral oil 20-50 grade.

I suspect the science is intended to show how clever the answerer is rather than help the person asking the question. Sorry if I offend, but that is the way I feel.
 
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Actually I said make sure it is compatible with a wet clutch.
When someone asks a simple question he dose not deserve a lecture on, in this case lubrication, what he wants is a simple answer such as use a mineral oil 20-50 grade.

I suspect the science is intended to show how clever the answerer is rather than help the person asking the question. Sorry if I offend, but that is the way I feel.
You did say that yes but you also actually did say:
I suspect that the Moly is not.
I mean maybe you meant the moly brand oil, not moly itself, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to put words in your mouth.

I personally appreciate knowing the reason why I'm being made a recommendation, not just blindly taking the word of some random person on the internet (which happened to be incorrect).
The science is intended to show that the claims being made are not pulled out of a magic hat or for the sake of being difficult. I'm sorry you feel that knowledge is something to be shamed instead of shared.

Back to the point of the thread, Jimmy I'm sure Millers would let you know if their oils are wet clutch compatible if you give them a call/email. I couldn't find anything about their oil and wet clutches, it seemed to be mostly people using it in old british cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You did say that yes but you also actually did say:

I mean maybe you meant the moly brand oil, not moly itself, but I'm sure you wouldn't want me to put words in your mouth.

I personally appreciate knowing the reason why I'm being made a recommendation, not just blindly taking the word of some random person on the internet (which happened to be incorrect).
The science is intended to show that the claims being made are not pulled out of a magic hat or for the sake of being difficult. I'm sorry you feel that knowledge is something to be shamed instead of shared.

Back to the point of the thread, Jimmy I'm sure Millers would let you know if their oils are wet clutch compatible if you give them a call/email. I couldn't find anything about their oil and wet clutches, it seemed to be mostly people using it in old british cars.
Hi, 80. I have asked the store that sells it and they did inform me it's not a wet clutch specific oil, though it should work ok with mine, as it's mineral. Anyway, they advised me the Motul 3000, to be absolutely sure. If the Motul doesn't work ok, I'll try the Millers in the future and inform you guys.
 

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Man, oils and electronic ignitions make for the most popcorn-worthy conversations here... Rob, where's that homebrew lager right about now? :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Hi, again, guys.

I changed the oil. as per the manual, I had the engine warmed up and got rid of the old oil. But the strangest thing happened - contrary to what the manual and the oil filler cap say (2.8l), the engine only took around 2.4 litres of oil and it got above the top mark on the dipstick. Is this normal?? I waited for a long time for the oil to sit (2h) and even tilted the bike over each side (there might have been areas the oil didn't reach, accumulating in a single spot) - same thing, over the top limit of the dipstick. Very odd!!

Has this happened to you guys?
 
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