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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my replacement "broken loop" cam chain came in from Common Motor Collective today as well as the chain breaker tool. The replacement cam chain is labeled EK29 H, and it comes with a press-fit/rivet style master link. The original cam chain on my CB360 is a DID 219T chain. Before I start messing with breaking the endless loop of the original DID, I took some measurements, and I found some values to be a little too different which raised a caution flag:

Pitch:
DID: 7.56 mm
EK: 7.58 mm
Conclusion: OK

Distance between outer edge of two rollers:
DID: 12.45 mm
EK: 12.34 mm
Conclusion: OK

Width of inner link (outer edge to outer edge)
DID: 7.63 mm
EK: 7.65 mm
Conclusion: OK

Width of outer link plates (outer edge to outer edge)
DID: 9.80 mm
EK: 10.68 mm
Conclusion: Questionable. This is almost a full millimeter of difference.

Width of rivet (outer edge of one side to outer of other side edge)
DID: 11.55 mm
EK: 11.91 mm
Conclusion: Borderline. About a 1/2mm thicker with the new EK chain

Thickness of individual inner link plates
DID: 1.39 mm
EK: 1.35 mm
Conclusion: OK

Thickness of individual outer link plates
DID: 1.11 mm
EK: 1.54 mm
Conclusion: Borderline. About a 1/2mm thicker with the new EK chain

Am I reading into this a bit more than I should be (note that there is some discrepancy with the digital caliper, as breathing/adjusting grip affects it!)? I just want to be 100% sure before I break my old chain.
 

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219 pitch chain comes in two types 219t and 219h , the 219h is 'Heavy ' and has thicker outer plates that's all, the pitch is the same ...219. lots of older Honda twins (regardless of cc) use 219 pitched cam chain , but some cam sprockets have dampners on the sides ( black plastic) others dont. In some instances The 219h chain can ride on the cam sprocket dampners instead of the sproket. But otherwise 219h and 219t can be swapped with no issue that I know of.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Simo! I was applying my "questioning attitude" from my occupation here, and your response cleared it up. I will proceed with the cam chain swap.
 

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219 pitch chain comes in two types 219t and 219h , the 219h is 'Heavy ' and has thicker outer plates that's all, the pitch is the same ...219. lots of older Honda twins (regardless of cc) use 219 pitched cam chain , but some cam sprockets have dampners on the sides ( black plastic) others dont. In some instances The 219h chain can ride on the cam sprocket dampners instead of the sproket. But otherwise 219h and 219t can be swapped with no issue that I know of.
Unless of course you're working on a CB450 engine. The 219H will not fit a CB450 properly from my experience and will cause cam timing to be slightly off.
 

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Unless of course you're working on a CB450 engine. The 219H will not fit a CB450 properly from my experience and will cause cam timing to be slightly off.
Yes I've read this is a problem. But don't the tohc 450's have plastic on either side of the sproket?

100_1633.jpg
I'd imagine that the affect of those is the same as a tsubaki chain on a cb350

images (1).jpg
 

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They do come with the plastic damper rings but I pried them off anyway since sooner or later they will deteriorate/break and possibly clog oil passages.
Even without the damper rings, the EK 219H will still not fit properly IME.
 

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Well, the chain itself was not binding per se. At least not that I could observe while rotating the engine.
I guess it is possible that one of the rollers in the cylinders could be causing this.

I reinstalled the 219H chain several times to no avail. Finally broke down and ordered a DID 219T chain and voila, no more cam timing issues.
 

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Well, the chain itself was not binding per se. At least not that I could observe while rotating the engine.
I guess it is possible that one of the rollers in the cylinders could be causing this.

I reinstalled the 219H chain several times to no avail. Finally broke down and ordered a DID 219T chain and voila, no more cam timing issues.

I have a box full of H-types that won't work with a 450.
 

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I'm thinking one or more of the idler wheels aren't toothed, maybe causing the side plates to ride higher pulling the chain a little advanced? Idk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey guys, I am gonna steer the convo back to me :D

I broke my existing cam chain with a chain breaker tool kit, strung up the replacement to the old with a thick wire and "fed" the new one through the crank sprocket. Sweet! I opened the corresponding EK chain master link (press-fit type), and found that the master link plate was not easy to "press on". Instead of using the dedicated "press plates" in the chain breaker, which were sized for a drive chain, I worked the master link plate onto the master link pins little by little each side with a depressed anvil and a hollow plate. The instructions indicate that with hollow master link pins, you are to "flare" the ends to keep the master link plate secured, and it should match the chain specifications.

Well unless it is not obvious, the master link pins don't look to be the hollow kind, and the master link plate was annoying enough to get pressed on. I tried using the "rivet" pin to flare out the ends of the master link pins by around 0.10mm to match the rest of the pins, but I could not get a flare of more than 0.02mm by cranking on the tool. Is the "flaring out" of the pins not required for solid (non-hollow) master link pins?
 

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Hey guys, I am gonna steer the convo back to me :D

I broke my existing cam chain with a chain breaker tool kit, strung up the replacement to the old with a thick wire and "fed" the new one through the crank sprocket. Sweet! I opened the corresponding EK chain master link (press-fit type), and found that the master link plate was not easy to "press on". Instead of using the dedicated "press plates" in the chain breaker, which were sized for a drive chain, I worked the master link plate onto the master link pins little by little each side with a depressed anvil and a hollow plate. The instructions indicate that with hollow master link pins, you are to "flare" the ends to keep the master link plate secured, and it should match the chain specifications.

Well unless it is not obvious, the master link pins don't look to be the hollow kind, and the master link plate was annoying enough to get pressed on. I tried using the "rivet" pin to flare out the ends of the master link pins by around 0.10mm to match the rest of the pins, but I could not get a flare of more than 0.02mm by cranking on the tool. Is the "flaring out" of the pins not required for solid (non-hollow) master link pins?
I've always avoided those master links - the real thing is still available from Honda.
 

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I've always avoided those master links - the real thing is still available from Honda.
Except the real thing from Honda (DID 219T) will not fit right on the EK 219H chain. Ask me how I know :)

The master link for the EK 219H is just press fit, no peening is required or so I was told.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Except the real thing from Honda (DID 219T) will not fit right on the EK 219H chain. Ask me how I know :)

The master link for the EK 219H is just press fit, no peening is required or so I was told.
I will confirm this with CMC (vendor that sold me the chain and associated master link). If so, that would be a relief.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I've always avoided those master links - the real thing is still available from Honda.
Yeah I hear ya. I really want to avoid splitting the cases :oops:
 
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