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1986 Honda Rebel 45
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, I’ve posted a recent thread about a engine knock that I have had in my rebel 450. Recently I removed the clutch cover and noticed that the clutch basket had some play while on the shaft. Im not sure if this is normal or not. Does anyone have any experience with this clutch basket? Video is below . Thank you!

 

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What is the problem and what kind of noise is it? Clutch outer in and out is normal. Little chain slop is normal. Use a fresh single blade razor and change them a lot so as not to gouge the surfaces and cause a leak.

There is some sort of knock is it? Pull the clutch lever in it goes away?
 

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Hi b40,

A few still pictures of cam area would be good, taken from several angles and sharp in focus...

Similar with balance shaft quadrant and DOT....

Same with balance chain probing, which may help. Can you see a circlip on balance chain sprocket, just in case....

Clutch basket.

When you rode the bike, did you hear/feel a sort of juddering, when in gear and releasing clutch.....?

Carefully remove those 4 6mm 10mm across flats clutch spring plate bolts......a picture of that slotted nut please.....before you do anything to it.


Can that nut be undone by hand I wonder.....

Oil pump chains are a bit on the slack side even when new, but as long as it doesn't touch anything, and the rollers ( that don't ) are ok, and linkage play is not eccessive, it should be ok.

Green gasket, so this cover may have not been off before ?

Razor blades to remove gasket remains...

When you removed the clutch cover, did crap/grit hiding in oil pressure switch area land all over the primary gear and oil pump chain ?

Nut loose ??

Get or make ( see recent anoligue Liz 80cm400t (a) usa thread, in fact read all her threads about this bike, hope that's ok with you AL ? ) the needed clutch nut peg spanner/socket.

If nut not loose ( I bet a family sized bag of malteezers it is ! ) you need to remove clutch for further investigation.


Pictures pictures pictures, feed back.....

Dd23🤓
 

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1986 Honda Rebel 45
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hey Thanks thanks for the response.
I have another post labeled engine knocking on my rebel 450. I posted another thread about the clutch basket afraid it would get lost in the other thread. I’m just trying to chase down a engine not that I have that came out of nowhere. The information is located in the other thread.
 

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Yep, seen and responded to your engine knock thread.

Also responding to clutch basket thread, which may be your knock.

Videos jerky but do show clutch basket movement, even noise heard when moving...

Does the clutch hub wobble as if it's loose ?

The slotted central nut clamps the hub to the gearbox input shaft so they effectively become one, tight, but allowing the basket to rotate on its bush that fits over the gearbox input shaft.

Is that nut loose ?

Over...

Dd23
 

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1986 Honda Rebel 45
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes thank you for responding to them. It was more for member poipo. He asked what the knocking was. The nut on the shaft that holds the basket on does not seem to be loose. I have to make the socket though. I guess another way to find out if it’s the noise or not is to remove the entire basket. Install cover fill will oil and run the bike without the clutch on and see if the knock is still there? Can the bike be ran without the clutch basket on? That’s a lot of work though
 

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Mmmmmmm, possible yes....

However...

As said not many cm's or cnx's made it to the UK.

The cm info I have is more CB like....

I shave looked on CMSNL.com, and will do so again, but......

The cam chain adjustment, the two bolts that hold the blade/tensioning unit on, is the top bolt loose ?

You push something down thats to do with the cam chain tensioner, and it returns due to a spring, in your vidio...

CMSNL also shows spring shock absorber on clutch basket, not cush drive method...

The engine will run with the cam cover off but is messy....

Is it possible that the engine will run with the clutch off, yes, but.
.....

Check that upper cam chain bolt....also a better picture of the balance shaft dot, on the end of the 14mm nut shaft, I just cannot definitely see the dot I'm on about.....
 

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Take PCV pipe cut to size and leave the big clutch outer on. So the pipe keeps the clutch outer in place. Don't know how the oil pump is working off what part of the rolling parts, that's why I'm thinking the clutch outer works off the big ring off the oil pump(?0), thus the safety of it running with oil.

Would not run it dry. If you found the oil spotless, zero looking metallic floating in the oil, might be that basket move as the noise, but as far as material creating a lot of tolerance for a knock, clean means you're wasting time, thread stretch, just snowballs once you go chasing something that is normal noise.

Once again, does the noise go away when clutch lever is pull and noise goes away... yes or no?
 

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Carb sync is where? Maybe hearing the bike idle might help. Got a vid of both sides or can you narrow down which side sounds louder? Engine seems low in miles? Ah, a second look at the vid kept me thinking the clutch big outer gear is going to mesh somehow with the oil pump.

Figure the bike is going to grow or expand some and that back and forth of the basket is about right. Clutch outer looks low miler because the forks of the big outer don't look that hammered.

Roller bearing big end cranks are bulletproof if you think of the old Z1's. Small end rod knock would make noise if we say the top end or the small end bearing would wear just one out?

Clean slinger or is this a replaceable oil cartridge? Clean are the pleats?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
there is a lot of info on the other thread but here is a video of the knocking.


also I posted that the oil light and neutral like no longer illuminate at all since I ran the bike with the covers off with the oil drained. Was just for a couple of seconds. I then put all the oil back in and still have no indicator lights for neutral or oil light. I hope the oil pump primed up. Now that is worrying me to now.
 

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See if the balancer chain will clear it up? Your probe to seeing that one chain inside have that much slack might be it? Notice the noise goes away when revved.

One way is when the cover is off again, hold the clutch outer an move it in either direction so see the chain show more slack. Chain rung is at too much of an angle to be the cam chain's straight up and down.

I'd first mark the position it is now in so make that base. Then more loosen the nut so the adjuster does not drop loose, but feel it so it can be hand tight to move that slot. Keep feeling out the chain slop, or looking at where the chain slack moves, because you still want some slack or you'll just wear the slipper more. Adjust accordingly.

Say you moved the basket or back wheel in gear to move the crank, say roll half or each 1/4 of the 360 turn. That means you more found the high spot [if any], than find a random spot and stop a few degrees. The backing off and turning the other way shows no drop or goes even tighter due to a hi/lo of the chain's complete 360. That's still keeping the slipper from digging at the come around you didn't compensate for. Get it?

Cam chain is adjustable or is this auto adjust? No horizontal kind of mounted housing sticking out at the rear of the cylinder barrels?
 
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