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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All, thanks for reading.

I’ve installed my new front wheel - a MikeXS 2.15 x 19 rim laced to the original hub and Continental TKC tire. I triple checked the compatibility of the new wheel/rim/tire set up before purchasing. All the parts are correct for the model (‘72), all parts installed, the spacer is on the correct side, the speedo gear mechanism is installed correctly, and the brake plate is seated.



It may be hard to tell from the photo, but the wheel/tire is sitting closer to the left side (when seated on the bike) - it’s not off by much but it is off. The bottom clamps are mounted correct with the higher side forward and tightened down completely before the rear. The axle is pretty much flush on the right side and sticks out 3-5mm on the left.

Is it possible my bearings (new) are not seated properly? Scratching my head here. Any help is much appreciated. Cheers
 

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It is also possible that the wheel was laced with an incorrect offset. That will make your hub centered, but the rim not.
 

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66Sprint
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First things first.....
You DID install the axle from the wheel's right side...through the spacer and then the wheel....
Once it exits the brake-plate the axle "nut" is installed with the "washer" section against the brake-plate......
You then correctly torqued the axle before installing it under the forks....
The fork bottom caps were seated with long side forwards, torqued first,
and then the rear stud/washers/nuts tightened appropriately......

Correct????
 

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Discussion Starter #4
First things first.....
You DID install the axle from the wheel's right side...through the spacer and then the wheel....
Once it exits the brake-plate the axle "nut" is installed with the "washer" section against the brake-plate......
You then correctly torqued the axle before installing it under the forks....
The fork bottom caps were seated with long side forwards, torqued first,
and then the rear stud/washers/nuts tightened appropriately......

Correct????
Yes to all of those Steve - thanks for replying.

The wheel is laced properly.

I took the wheel off and installed the fender. After I double checked the wheel, brake plate, speedo gear mechanism, etc again. Mounted the wheel and it appears to be better. It is 'slightly' to the left. Will post up a photo in the morning.

When tightening the axle the wheel does not want to turn very freely. Is this common with new bearings?! If I tighten the axle nut any more than slightly more than hand tight it begins to bind. I'm thinking something isn't correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
No, that spacer is definitely in. Could it be possible that the bearings are not seated fully? That’s the only thing I can think of. Might explain the binding/sow rotation of the wheel?
 

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66Sprint
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If ALL the parts are there, the "central tubes" of each bit are compressed together when you tighten the axle...
NONE of those actually rotate when the assembly is clamped in the forks....
Only the balls and outer races (and of course the wheel) rotate on this now rigidly clamped "tube", aligned by the positioning of the bearing inner races (which comprise part of the "tube").

IF the wheel is reluctant to spin on a tightly torqued axle, the bearings are the problem....
They may be being compressed inwards (no or wrong center spacer, not fully in)....
Or the bearings are tilted or damaged (improper install, driven crooked, or damaged when being driven in)...

ONLY the center spacer and bearing inner races are usually involved in the problem....Outer races if driven crooked....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I pulled the wheel off again and double checked the bearings. They move freely and are seated. When the brake plate is on and axle tightened the wheel does not want to spin freely. I have new brakes but that shouldn’t be an issue.

The wheel is still not centred either. Photos below. There’s a small gap at the bottom of each fork dropout on both sides too. The wheel is not rubbing against the left fork leg but the bits of new rubber from the tire is almost touching.
 

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After the axle is tight, but before you put the wheel back in the forks, does it turn okay? You can hold both sides of the axle and roll it on the floor, then lift it and see how easily it spins while holding the axle. Centering is one thing but if the wheel isn't turning freely on the bearings with the axle tight (but not overtightened), there's a problem with the bearings or spacers in the hub. What about the brake backing plate - when you put it in the hub but before you put the axle through, does it rotate freely when you push in the center where the axle goes in? Is it possible the backing plate is rubbing the outer edge of the hub when the axle is tightened?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Thanks AD for responding.
After the axle is tightened, but not over tightened, it will not spin freely like you’d expect. It rotates an eight (at best) before stopping.
The brake backing plate will turn freely as well, without the axle in and tightened.
Can’t get my head around the problem. I can turn the bearing sleeve easily and they feel smooth. they’re both brand new and an original Honda part. The spacer inside the hub did feel loose before my last check when I was able to get the bearings to sit a little further in the hub. The spacer now doesn’t have play, but I can still make it move by sticking a screw driver in and trying to wiggle it.
The axle does not appear bent at all. I recall when I took the front wheel off the axle it was very tight to get off but the wheel spun freely. I don’t have to tighten it very much at all to get the binding or resistance I feel now.
I think I’m going to remove the bearings and try reinstalling them.
 

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66Sprint
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IIRC, the right-side bearing has a seating ring at the bottom (inside ) and MUST be fully pressed/driven in first......This "sets" the positioning of the left side bearing as well.....

I suspect the reason the wheel is slightly to the left is the right bearing isn't fully seated... This allows all the remaining bits to shift right as well, moving the wheel to the left.....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
IIRC, the right-side bearing has a seating ring at the bottom (inside ) and MUST be fully pressed/driven in first......This "sets" the positioning of the left side bearing as well.....

I suspect the reason the wheel is slightly to the left is the right bearing isn't fully seated... This allows all the remaining bits to shift right as well, moving the wheel to the left.....
Bang on the money Steve....as usual. ;) The right-side bearing wasn't fully seated. I thought it was, I really thought it was. After reading what you wrote I went at it again and it did go in. I now have a freely spinning front wheel. However, the wheel isn't completely entered. It's slightly better than it was, but still a bit out.

I was reading past front wheel & bearing installation threads and came across this, which coincidentally you took part in the solution too Steve (Originally posted 05-02-2016 - link here):

Hi all,

I had my K4 front wheel apart for new bearings (All Balls 6302's) and new brakes.

The problem: when the axl nut was cranked down past 10 foot pounds, the brake plate would bind.

Things checked:

Bearings were correct and seated all the way and true. The bearings were holding the center bushing nice and snug. The speedo gears were free and operated smoothly. There was only one paper thin thrust washer in between the speedo gear and the brake plate.

Obviously something was off with the spacing on the brake plate center tube and the face of the inner race of the brake side bearing... So I thought.

I was stumped, so I called Sensai Steve. He suggested taking out the large speedo gear and try torquing to spec. Sure enough it worked and the hub spun free.

We then drank coffee and scratched our heads.

He then asked me to measure from the inner bearing race on the brake side to the machined surface where the speedo gear engages. It was not flush. The inner race was 1/16" recessed. Hmmmm.

More coffee and head scratching.

We figured a 1/16" thrust washer in between the bearing inner race and the brake plate inner mating surface would make up the difference.

This solution worked perfectly with the axl torqued to 45 foot pounds. There was no increase in overall axle/hub width that would splay the forks.

A follow up phone call, while fighting my hysterical 7 month old daughter Ella, yielded this conclusion:

The new bearings are thinner than stock originals or the beveled edge on the new bearing's outer race surface edge is "more rounded" allowing it to seat lower in the hub. Also, you can't argue with a cranky 7 month old.

Thank you very much to Steve and his steel trap��

P.S. I have used All Balls bearings for all my bike needs. They are great however, "mind the gap".

I am wondering if this is the issue that I am having??
 

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This may have nothing to do with your problem, but are your axle clamps on correctly? The ends aren't flush with the lower leg mating surfaces.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This may have nothing to do with your problem, but are your axle clamps on correctly? The ends aren't flush with the lower leg mating surfaces.
From what I understand they don't. The front of the axle clamps are longer/taller in the front, which you clamp tight before tightening the back.

What's a good time to phone Steve? Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It is also possible that the wheel was laced with an incorrect offset. That will make your hub centered, but the rim not.
My apologies Pemdoc, you were correct! I really thought my wheel was correct with it's offset - however, I was a bit off which was part of the problem. I had remedied the right bearing and got the wheel spinning - that solved part of the issue. I gave Steve a call this evening and he walked me through the rest of the problem. I wished I had taken a photo at the time to show that my left side wheel bearing was not quite flush inside the hub. Got that fixed then we measured the distance from the spoke flange to the inside of the fork lowers and confirmed everything was lined up, all parts in place, bearings were good, etc. And thus left the issue that Pemdoc brought up - the offset of the wheel.

All said and done, the wheel is fixed and sits perfectly centred after loosening/tightening/re-balancing the front wheel.

Really really grateful for this forum and Steve for taking the time to help a newbie!
 
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