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You need to look at the skirt on the right piston, it looks broken in the pic. Also the cam chain adjuster, the small idler wheel is pretty chewed up too. I agree with Steve, get the book out and pull the bottom case and clean that motor out.

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Discussion Starter #22
You need to look at the skirt on the right piston, it looks broken in the pic. Also the cam chain adjuster, the small idler wheel is pretty chewed up too. I agree with Steve, get the book out and pull the bottom case and clean that motor out.


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You guys are killing me here.
Definitely starting, no definitely for real getting in way over my head here.
Don't you need very specialized tools for breaking open the cases?
As to the cam chain adjuster, are you referring to - Genuine Honda - Cam Chain Guide Roller - 14601-312-000.
 

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With any attention to detail, the bottom end of the engine is as easy or easier than working on the top end. And by cam chain tensioner, he means the metal arm and rubber roller that pushes against the chain to keep it tight (part #3 in the picture in post #4 above), not the center roller... but if #8 (the center rubber roller) is hard and/or brittle and maybe losing pieces, it should be replaced too
 

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Discussion Starter #24
With any attention to detail, the bottom end of the engine is as easy or easier than working on the top end. And by cam chain tensioner, he means the metal arm and rubber roller that pushes against the chain to keep it tight (part #3 in the picture in post #4 above), not the center roller... but if #8 (the center rubber roller) is hard and/or brittle and maybe losing pieces, it should be replaced too
Am I working from the right parts manual page?
Item 2 would be the 14500-312-000 or the cam chain tensioner.
I noticed a NOS complete kit on ebay at $200 and I found another kit at common for $188.
I guess, I will look at the manual this weekend while camping in West Texas.
Breaking cases just seems well above my pay grade.
Wish I could find another engine that was in good shape.


cam.chain.tensioner.jpg
 

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In the picture in post 4 above, the item (which is the same item we're discussing) is #3, and it's #2 in the picture you posted - but yes, the same item. "Breaking cases" is a bit dramatic... you remove the clutch, oil pump and alternator, take out the bolts (some of which go through from the top), flip the engine over and gently tap the lower case until it comes loose, then lift it off... not rocket surgery, the top end is more tricky for a novice than the bottom is. But I've also noticed that you seem to take your own path, no matter the explanations received - I mean, the PO boogered up one stud but for some reason you feel the need to replace all 8 of them... the PO did the damage, the others will last a lifetime since they have not been damaged. At some point you need to trust the advice being given here, some of these people are as expert as you'll find anywhere as it was their livelihood
 

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Splitting the cases on one of these engines is really no big deal. Plenty of Youtube videos out there showing how it goes together, so familiarize yourself with those first. Undo all the fasteners that hold the case halves together, flip the engine upside-down, the bottom case comes off by itself. The case sealer Honda uses at the factory will still hold the case halves together after the screws are out, so find a place to GENTLY start prying them apart. Once the seal is broken, the halves separate easily. The kickstart mechanism will be the only assembly that comes out with the lower case. The crankshaft and transmission assemblies will stay in the top half. Take pictures as you go so you know how everything goes back together. Again, no big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
In the picture in post 4 above, the item (which is the same item we're discussing) is #3, and it's #2 in the picture you posted - but yes, the same item. "Breaking cases" is a bit dramatic... you remove the clutch, oil pump and alternator, take out the bolts (some of which go through from the top), flip the engine over and gently tap the lower case until it comes loose, then lift it off... not rocket surgery, the top end is more tricky for a novice than the bottom is. But I've also noticed that you seem to take your own path, no matter the explanations received - I mean, the PO boogered up one stud but for some reason you feel the need to replace all 8 of them... the PO did the damage, the others will last a lifetime since they have not been damaged. At some point you need to trust the advice being given here, some of these people are as expert as you'll find anywhere as it was their livelihood
I am prone to overkill on my projects (hence why not replace them all while I am at it). At the same time, the frustration with this bike is beyond comprehension. Being taken for a ride sucks and that is what the PO did to me with my eyes wide open.
The knowledge displayed here is intimidating or impressive.
Rabbit Hole is living up to its name like I have never would have expected. Locally, I have no support resources and not a proper shop.
Cracking the cases, could easily translate into replacing the clutch components and a few other items - probably for the better.
However, my issue with cracking the cases was based on Harley knowledge. This appears to be just (an understatement no doubt) a top and bottom setup. On my old Harley, if you needed to get into the bottom end (if I recall correctly) the cases (left and right) were cracked down the center using special tools, etc.
No doubt new gotcha's are going to show up when I attempt the full deconstruction of this engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Splitting the cases on one of these engines is really no big deal. Plenty of Youtube videos out there showing how it goes together, so familiarize yourself with those first. Undo all the fasteners that hold the case halves together, flip the engine upside-down, the bottom case comes off by itself. The case sealer Honda uses at the factory will still hold the case halves together after the screws are out, so find a place to GENTLY start prying them apart. Once the seal is broken, the halves separate easily. The kickstart mechanism will be the only assembly that comes out with the lower case. The crankshaft and transmission assemblies will stay in the top half. Take pictures as you go so you know how everything goes back together. Again, no big deal.
Thanks Pops. Now I will have to go back and reread that section. I really over simplified what I was seeing in the manual
Definitely fear getting anywhere near the transmission.
 

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Fl100, nobody is trying to make more work for you, on the contray, we all are trying to help you have a good experience. A motor that with proper maintainance and care, will last a long time. Plus you will know the inner workings of your motor. And if there is a problem, you will find it now not later. We are here to help each other grow as bike owners.

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I would caution against NOS Cam Chain Rollers.
The issue is the rubber rollers harden over time and NOS parts may be already hardened.
Hardened rollers tend to break apart under stress
 
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I am prone to overkill on my projects (hence why not replace them all while I am at it). At the same time, the frustration with this bike is beyond comprehension. Being taken for a ride sucks and that is what the PO did to me with my eyes wide open.
The knowledge displayed here is intimidating or impressive.
Rabbit Hole is living up to its name like I have never would have expected. Locally, I have no support resources and not a proper shop.
Cracking the cases, could easily translate into replacing the clutch components and a few other items - probably for the better.
However, my issue with cracking the cases was based on Harley knowledge. This appears to be just (an understatement no doubt) a top and bottom setup. On my old Harley, if you needed to get into the bottom end (if I recall correctly) the cases (left and right) were cracked down the center using special tools, etc.
No doubt new gotcha's are going to show up when I attempt the full deconstruction of this engine.
Good grief.:roll: The "Harley" mentality. I hate it when a Harley person gets a Japanese bike. You cannot tell them anything and the bike usually ends up a pile of junk parts. I know where two CB 750s are right now that have succumbed to the "Harley" mentality.:(
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I see no reason NOT to use that Roller Set.
I have a SOLID Poly type Roller Set in (2) 350's, but the guy who was making them is no longer doing it.
 
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Discussion Starter #35
Good grief.:roll: The "Harley" mentality. I hate it when a Harley person gets a Japanese bike. You cannot tell them anything and the bike usually ends up a pile of junk parts. I know where two CB 750s are right now that have succumbed to the "Harley" mentality.:(
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Well the only wrenching I have done was on Harley's. And apparently you guys can tell me something. I have been following the script as well as I can. I have to admit, I am tempted to dare fate and not crack the case to find the missing skirt parts. But I probably won't and take the engine down some more. As to the Harley mentality. Not sure I really have it. I like getting things back the way they were for the most part.
Chenga, you thinking an all steel cam chain tensioner set might be a good upgrade while I am here?
NOTE: Instructions for the installation can be obtained thru email or private message, as ebay no longer allows external links to be placed in these ads. Installation does require grinding a simple rivet driving tool, or the purchase of a pre-made driver tool (available separately). Feel free to ask for a copy of the instructions before placing an order. Shipping costs will be combined for combined orders. I will send you a paypal reimbursement for shipping costs following a combined order if applicable.
So it is not a plug and play upgrade.
 

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Thanks Yendor, im just wanting to pick the brains of some here, before i buy something. Im sure it will be a little more noisy, but i can deal with that.

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Discussion Starter #37
Thanks Yendor, im just wanting to pick the brains of some here, before i buy something. Im sure it will be a little more noisy, but i can deal with that.

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I requested a set of installation instructions from the vendor.
 

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The "Harley" mentality can be summed up in one word "Special" You need "special" tools, "special" parts, "special" skills... When working on a Harley (especially when modifying it) you need to replace a lot of parts and upgrade most of them. I recently tried to convince a Harley guy that was in the process of destroying a CB 750 that all the bike needed was an overbore with new pistons and rings. He kept telling me "on a Harley" you need to upgrade the cams, upgrade the cylinder studs, upgrade the... I had to walk away. The bike is now a pile of parts.
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Discussion Starter #40
The "Harley" mentality can be summed up in one word "Special" You need "special" tools, "special" parts, "special" skills... When working on a Harley (especially when modifying it) you need to replace a lot of parts and upgrade most of them. I recently tried to convince a Harley guy that was in the process of destroying a CB 750 that all the bike needed was an overbore with new pistons and rings. He kept telling me "on a Harley" you need to upgrade the cams, upgrade the cylinder studs, upgrade the... I had to walk away. The bike is now a pile of parts.
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On my old (81) bike, I did two upgrades - electronic ignition and converted to a CV carb. Both were improvements in reliability and dependability. Neither were about performance. Of course this was on their shovelhead engine, which was meant to be an engine the average ranch hand could work on with basic tools. In my mind if provided a simple way to accomplish an objective, I will take it. With the exception of exhaust and intake, my daily riders have stayed stock. My current daily has only one mechanical improvement and that is a higher flow, recleanable air filter. That's it. So, no I am not one to drink the cool-aide when it comes to the Harley mentality - which I see a lot.
 
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