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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read all the posts but still don’t see a clear answer to the following question?

“What carbs are out there that are an upgrade to stock CL200 carbs that are also bolt on”

I read in several places that CL or CB175 were bigger (20mm vs 18) but I went to a junkyard saw a CB175 and carbs seems exactly the same as mine “20” on top, and Venturi size feels looks exact same….also with the 20 on top I am doubting CL200 is 18mm.

I read in several places that a CL160 is upgrade as they are 22mm, but I saw an old brochure that shows those as 20mm…

I have a number of bikes my modified CL200 is the smallest and I use as a oit bike and a neighborhood go to coffee, health club bike…top speed with me at 170lbs in about 60…we have several multi lane streets with speed limit 50 ppl go 60-65, bike a bit slow for that hence the upgrade desire….
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thks but it can’t pull 5th right now - it will get to 8500-9000 or as fast as I dare rev it in 4th, but in 5th it gets to like 6750 which is like 61mph…..in fact I was considering one tooth bigger in rear 38 vs 37 to maybe allow it to pull higher Rs, and maybe enough to overcome the gearing speed loss….
 

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I personally think that it's an urban myth about the 18mm carbs on the US Cb200. All the advertising literature from Honda that I've seen states 20mm carbs on the CB200, same as the Cb175.

Running CB200 sprockets on your CL200 will reduce the rpms at top speed. It should pull 5th gear and run on to an indicated 80, light weight rider prone on the tank.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Richard agreed re urban myth in 18s….but did you ever find a suitable 22mm or 24mm? Makes sense re CB sprocket I assume overall gearing is “taller”…as I said it may seem counterintuitive to some by I may try going the other way, ie 38 rear vs my stock 37 hoping that I can pull to say 7500 or 8000k in 5th and get more speed even with “”shorter” gearing that the current 6800 max in 5th…
 

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Here's the thing - putting bigger carbs on a stock engine will not make it run better or make more horsepower. If you modify the engine to allow it to make more horsepower you can put bigger carbs on it to properly feed the larger bore or bigger camshaft profile or both, but bigger carbs feeding the same engine displacement with the same cam specs and breathing capabilities will require a bunch of rejetting ending in the same resulting power.
 

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Want to go faster? either you or it need to go on a diet, lol :) Seriously though, you can't expect heroics from 200cc made in 1974. It looks like in your profile pic the bike has no mufflers? I would check your spark plugs and see if you are running lean, which will affect performance (and shorten lifespan)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Here's the thing - putting bigger carbs on a stock engine will not make it run better or make more horsepower. If you modify the engine to allow it to make more horsepower you can put bigger carbs on it to properly feed the larger bore or bigger camshaft profile or both, but bigger carbs feeding the same engine displacement with the same cam specs and breathing capabilities will require a bunch of rejetting ending in the same resulting power.
Thks I’ve worked on a lot of car and bike engines for a lot of years and am familiar with the concepts you are espousing and do agree that all elements need to match/work together but I am thinking that the current weak link/underflowing portion may be carburetion and if I could find a simple, bolt on at a small size increase to 22 or 24mm I think it might help a little….
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Want to go faster? either you or it need to go on a diet, lol :) Seriously though, you can't expect heroics from 200cc made in 1974. It looks like in your profile pic the bike has no mufflers? I would check your spark plugs and see if you are running lean, which will affect performance (and shorten lifespan)
Well I went from over 200 lbs to 170 about 4 yrs back so I am feeling damn good about my weight! I do bet though that when Honda quoted these things at 70 mph so the rider was probly 135-140 max…yes I did mod the exhaust, muffler was rusted and as part of my overall mods (shorter seat and rear frame, shorter front and rear fenders, no turn signals, smaller taillight, no heat shields, tach only, etc etc….clean little scrambler was my goal - I did remove muffler but do have baffles in there…I did extensively jet and plugs looks pretty perfect, no backfiring, etc. so I think I’m spot on jetting wise….I’m not expecting heroics I’m just wanting a bit more for the faster boulevards in the neigborhood, I mean I have a 1987 GSXR 750 among others that makes 115 or so hp and weighs 375 so I have some fast bikes….it’s just when I ride this thing in the hood I feel I may not be getting every one of my 17hp bcuz I think I should be able to go say 65, but maybe I am getting my 17hp….As I think I said I rebuilt the motor…I have spent a lot of time on the bike….love the little thing, you know just always trying to improve things, optimize…..
 

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I think that the point is your CL200 is not running right at present, it should go faster than 60mph in stock trim. Best to get that sorted before thinking about modifications.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I think that the point is your CL200 is not running right at present, it should go faster than 60mph in stock trim. Best to get that sorted before thinking about modifications.
Richard I am not sure if that’s the case or not….the engine has been rebuilt (hone, re ring, valve job, cam chain), timing is right, electrics up to snuff (new points, plugs, condenser, wires, caps, coil) carbs are rebuilt, jetted properly, compression is very good, q50 +/- 1 or 2 psi in each cylinder if memory serves) only mod is exhaust, runs smoothly through the range, no backfires, sparkplugs look good. Pulls to 8500 or so in all gears except 5th.

I have been trying to find out what others have experienced (not heard) as top speed on a CL200 (not a CB200, CL175 or CB175) and no one I have found this far has done it or has a clear answer.

On multiple occasions, I have tested mine on flat ground, no wind, and with me as rider at 170lbs. 62 mph is best.I was expecting 70, but think that maybe unrealistic, but still feel it should be at least 65.

I guess you never did find a suitable set of carbs at 22mm or 24mm? If not do you have any input on what else I should do check? (Thks)

I decided to put my carbs back on (had them off in search of matching 22s) and in the spring will go after 2 items:
1) New tires - rear trials tire on it now versus an alternate IRC or Kenda on/off tire, new may help maybe a few miles per hour.
2) Rear sprocket change from 37 to 38, yes as I said I know it’s technically opposite for top speed, but thinking this will hopefully be made up for/surpassed by higher rpm’s in 5th.
 

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All I can say is that back in the day I rode a new CB175 and a new CB200. Both had identical top speeds, indicated 80mph with teenaged rider prone on the tank, probably closer to 70mph in reality.

My CB175 would cruise comfortably at an indicated 60-65 mph.

CB200 has a higher final drive ratio than the CL200. I take your point about lowering the gearing - this works if the bike in question is over geared as stock, but I don't think this applies in this case.

( My CB600 is geared for a theoretical top speed of 160+, redlined in sixth gear. In reality, it can only do about 125 *, so I've fitted a larger rear sprocket, top speed remains the same but acceleration and driveability is improved )

* Contemporary road test timed it at 141mph in one magazine, professional rider, racing leathers etc.
 

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How are you measuring your speed?
Stock speedometer?
Gps?
Wired bicycle speedometer?

Not all methods will be equally accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
All I can say is that back in the day I rode a new CB175 and a new CB200. Both had identical top speeds, indicated 80mph with teenaged rider prone on the tank, probably closer to 70mph in reality.

My CB175 would cruise comfortably at an indicated 60-65 mph.

CB200 has a higher final drive ratio than the CL200. I take your point about lowering the gearing - this works if the bike in question is over geared as stock, but I don't think this applies in this case.
I am thinking i am a bit down on power versus where I should be but like i said i feel like i have done everything i can to the stock engine to get it right, its enjoyable to ride and performs good enough for all but those fastest local streets….even though i rebuilt it it is 45 years old and im sure there are variations in stock engines, so i guess ill try the tires and gearing and if i dont get that extra bit, ill just keep it as my pit bike maybe do some leisurely trail riding and avoid those faster streets and use one of my other bikes when i need to go on those streets
 

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Main difference between the stock CB200 and CL200 is the exhaust system. My feeling is that the CL system is more restrictive than the CB, so a stock CL will be a bit slower than a stock CB. Certainly the CL has smaller main jets than the CB, which must be due to the differing exhaust systems. Running on open pipes with baffles inserted is bound to have an effect one way or another on performance.

Lower gearing on the CL because of its off road possibilities.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How are you measuring your speed?
Stock speedometer?
Gps?
Wired bicycle speedometer?

Not all methods will be equally accurate.
I used phone GPS speed, which correlated to 9mph/1000 rpm in 5th, now im looking at taco and i get to about 6800 which equates to 60 or 61…
Main difference between the stock CB200 and CL200 is the exhaust system. My feeling is that the CL system is more restrictive than the CB, so a stock CL will be a bit slower than a stock CB. Certainly the CL has smaller main jets than the CB, which must be due to the differing exhaust systems. Running on open pipes with baffles inserted is bound to have an effect one way or another on performance.
Good point re exhaust….I am quite happy with the mods I have to my CL in terms of the way the bike looks now, and the exhaust is part of that, but the muffler afforded extra length within which to get some quieting done…once removed the bike was simply too loud….the baffling I have come up with leaves the bike a little louder than stock, but given that it is done without extra length, maybe net net I’m a touch more restrictive…so I think I will experiment with that…so that gives me 3 items to change/test…tires, exhaust, gearing….that will be fun to do…

So the “off roading” the CL gets is when I get home I ride up the little hill on the lawn😊, and it did get some exercise on fields and paths at a bike vintage bike event I go to…but not much….I actually bought it because my best friend from growing up who I raced motocross with has a flock of SLs now including a 175 I found him so I thought the CL would be a good match for that….so next year I hope to do some leisurely trail riding with him at his place in the woods
 

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Here's the thing - putting bigger carbs on a stock engine will not make it run better or make more horsepower. If you modify the engine to allow it to make more horsepower you can put bigger carbs on it to properly feed the larger bore or bigger camshaft profile or both, but bigger carbs feeding the same engine displacement with the same cam specs and breathing capabilities will require a bunch of rejetting ending in the same resulting power.
I have to agree. You might get some help from carbs that are a milimetre or two larger but without increasing the size of the port in the cylinder head the large carburettors will not help a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have to agree. You might get some help from carbs that are a milimetre or two larger but without increasing the size of the port in the cylinder head the large carburettors will not help a lot.
Thks for the input i guess but if u read the thread u will see its a moot point bcuz
1) I cant find and no one has come up with 22s or 24s anyway
2) i am trying other avenues
 
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