[frogman79]

That bike should already have a better charging controller than a Kolher reg/rec. That system is 3 phase AC where as the older systems on say a DOHC 450 are single phase AC. In your case doing this mod will be a down grade. If your unit has failed you need to find the correct replacement.

 

[DitlevCB400N]

Ok - so using this R/R would work with a lithium battery? Any thoughts on this?

 

[Rscottp]

Ok - so using this R/R would work with a lithium battery? Any thoughts on this?

It is my understanding the only safe way to run a Li/ion battery is to use a Mosfet reg/rec. I could be wrong but that's what I have read.

 

[ancientdad]

I'm running the Oregon Cycle rec/reg (not sure if it's Mosfet, don't think so) with my 4 amp lithium ion battery and have had no issues with it at all, over 1000 miles on it now with LEDs all around on the bike and running headlight on, the full stator charging in play

 

[DitlevCB400N]

I think there are mixed opinions about this. Some say the newer r/r works alright - others points to the mosfet type. Could be interesting if anyone have tried fitting a cheap newer r/r (officially approved to lithium battery) to one of these older bikes.

 

[Sonreir]

Newer type combined regulator/rectifier (non-MOSFET) is fine for LI-ION if the manufacturer approves it. Sparck Moto regulator/rectifiers are all good for LI-ION, for instance.

That said, there are very good reasons to run MOSFET. MOSFET units will run a lot cooler and are generally a hardier choice. This can be especially important if you're planning to reduce the system's electrical load (through the deletion of lights or substitution of LEDs). My personal opinion is that they're overkill for the Honda twins, though.

Here's my thinking... Modern non-MOSFET regulator/rectifiers are usually rated around 150W-200W depending on the setup (some are good for up to 400W and these can be identified by the multiple green and red wires like on the Goldwing R/Rs from the early-to-mid 80s). None of the older Honda twins are capable of putting out over 150W, so buying a MOSFET regulator (which can handle around 600W) just isn't necessary. Even if you were to remove all of the lighting from your bike, there is enough capacity in a modern R/R to still handle what a vintage Honda twin can throw out there. Some of the GL and CX models would definitely benefit from MOSFET, as might some of the later CBs, but if it was made before 1978, just stick with the Sparck Moto single phase unit and you're golden.

 

[Rscottp]

I knew we would get a definitive answer sooner or later, thanks.

 

[Sam Fallow]

My cheapie ebay Chinese Kohler copy arrived so I wired it in quickly to test it.

The bike decided to run on one cylinder but I did briefly see over 14v so that is an improvement on the old system. Really just wanted to prove that my stator was good and it is so that's money well spent.

I'll work on a permanent fix later.

Thanks for all the help on this thread.

 

[Brent]

lot of nonsense in this thread.

the modern mosfet r/r is the honda cn250/ch250.

Good thing you straightened them out.

 

[Sonreir]

A three phase R/R will definitely work, but I prefer a single phase unit. They're generally smaller and usually cheaper as well.

 

[66Sprint]

I want all 3 stators running wide open at idle. you need to rectify the 3rd stator wire to make that happen.

IF you meant to say you want all three pairs of stator windings generating power and contributing, (even at idle) I agree...... They ARE once the white/yellow tag wire is in circuit by connecting it to the Yellow wire.....
However, in order to have multi-phasic generation (three or even just two phase), each phase's initiation of energy production MUST occur at a time that is different than the initiation of the other winding pairs.....THIS DOES NOT occur in this case.....Since they ALL initiate simultaneously, what we have is three single phase generator pairs wired in parallel.......
The Honda engineers understood this and therefore provided SINGLE phase rectification...Apparently, you believe your limited electrical engineering education is vastly superior to all the Honda electrical engineers....You are welcome to your opinion, and fortuitously it has led you to an unnecessary, but functionally capable component, so your system works....

Please, DO NOT promulgate incorrect information to the membership in general.....When I make mistakes I admit and correct them .....

Stock stator, and a stator re-wound to a different configuration are mutually exclusive and contradictory terms....
You could have the stock core rewound differently, or the stock windings rewired (connected differently), but neither remains stock........
Rewound to the original configuration is simply rebuilt stock.....

 

[76TWIN]

Hmm... 14 posts and all about the charging system.

 

[Mydlyfkryzis]

yes it's easy to complain. It is a fault in my personality. lets acutually update this post. I'll break it down stupid simple, starting from the 3 stator wires.

theory: ac current is generated and needs to be turned to dc. the dc voltage needs to be regulated. this is the way it was done on the stock bike.

radio shack is gone. let's use a different rectifier. one that did not exist when this thread was written. the sql40a 3 phase rectifier costs $2 shipping included.

the sql40a has 5 terminals. the 3 ac termials go to the stator. + goes to the battery - to frame.

now we will regulate with the kohler/onan using only it's internal regulator. the center terminal marked B goes to the battery and the case of the kohler/onan gets grounded to the frame.

done.

I should not have brought up the cn250/ch250 r/r after all this is the kohler/onan radio shack rectifier thread

You really need to examine your assumptions and listen to people who actually know what they are talking about. Sonreir and 66Sprint are among the most knowledgeable on this site.

1. The CB350/360 have single phase generators with 6 coils. No amount of rectifiers will change that. Three phase generators have each phase start 120 degrees apart. The CB350/360 generator starts all coils 180 degrees apart. You cannot get three phase electric from this generator. Doesn;t matter what rectifier you put on either.

2. Three phase generation existed when Honda started his business. Three phase rectifiers existed when Honda started his business. Single phase was a choice, as was DC. Some models used AC for the lights to eliminate use of the rectifier. While rectifier materials have changed over the years, rectification has been around for longer than Honda has been making motorcycles.

3. Mosfet verses BJT transistor construction. There is a difference in operation. The older system does not use a transistor at all. It uses an SCR and grounds the AC output to ground to regulate. The Mosfet type systems regulate the DC side current and do not ground the output. Mosfet, while a construction difference, is all about the construction difference. The voltage drop across a BJT causes high heat to be generated at high amp loads. The low internal resistance of the Mosfet makes it a better choice for high current loads. You asked

who says there is not a mosfet inside todays bootleg kohler/onan tractor r/r?

. I say there is not a mosfet in the Kohler reg/rect because is uses an SCR, not a transistor. If you understood how they operated, you would of known this. Schematics are available to show this. You can also find out how a zener diode is used to control the SCR.

4. Since these (350/360) use permanent magnet type alternators, not field excited type, the type of regulation is always on the power output side. The alternator always puts out the maximum output it can for the RPM, and is not directly regulated. A field excited alternator is regulated by varying the field current to control the output. They require a different regulation system entirely.

5. The modern single phase regulator, kohler, Sonreir's product, all operate the same way the original regulator operated, grounding AC output to maintain correct voltage on the DC side. They do it using the newer, more efficient materials, which result in less heat loss do to lower internal resistance. I have used the original, Kohler type, and Sonreir's type regulator. I can tell you from testing and experience, Sonreir's is the best available for these older Honda's. It regulates the best and has the least internal resistance. Means more energy available to charge and operate the lights.

Shame you are putting misinformation out here and on the 2 stroke forums. You may have some electrical knowledge, but definitely do not have knowledge of how our motorcycles actually work.

I'll break it down stupid simple, starting from the 3 stator wires.

You forgot the use the simple part, evidently.

 

[66Sprint]

I can't argue with stupid. here is the exact stats 04-15-2012 is the day this thread was posted on the. 50 pages long , Replies: 487, Views: 179,522

the white wire that runs into the handlebar switch and comes out yellow. where does it go? it goes into the rectifier. nobody on this site saw that the first post was screwed up. you need to rectify all the stators. tossing the rectifier is a mistake. and it works perfect if you keep it.

wow. you mean because I changed how the rectifier is wired my stator is no longer stock. wtf?

The white wire was not mentioned in the first post, but even had it been your point is ridiculous as it is connected to the rectifier in common with yellow (either by the headlight switch in the stock set-up, or by the permanent connection we have been recommending making for 10 years).... There is no separate white wire connection to the rectifier needed, it is single phase output....

There is only one stator on these bikes....It has six windings (three pairs) but is a single unit.... However, that is just semantics.....

In answer to the wow part, NO it changes the stator because in another post you said " I am using the stock stator rewired in a modern configuration.".... Rewiring a stator would make it non-stock (which is what you said)...I think what you meant was rewiring the stator connections to a rectifier, differently connecting the outputs (which is what you SHOULD have said...

Technology HAS changed the components, but has NOT altered the theory or principles ........

 

[rileyxo85]

would i need to remove any combination of the tank, air filter, exhaust on a 71 CL350?

 

[frogman79]

To mount the unit? Yes you will likely need to be able to access the sides and bottom of the battery box, so air filters and housings at least. Course you could just pull the battery box out after unhooking things and removing the battery.

 

[rileyxo85]

To mount the unit? Yes you will likely need to be able to access the sides and bottom of the battery box, so air filters and housings at least. Course you could just pull the battery box out after unhooking things and removing the battery.

do you think i would be able to get away with just removing the right side of the airbox and not the left?

 

[frogman79]

You need to be able to access the old regulator and rectifier and the harness connections for both. You are going to want to use at least 1 of the mounting points of those for whichever version of reg/rec unit you choose. I've never done a 350 so I can't speak for how it would go however my 360 required having both air boxes off to get to the regulator as it is mounted on the bottom of the battery box.

 

[chaindrivecharlie]

On the bottom of battery box.

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

 

[gazzweld]

Hi guys, i have a problem somewhere with my Kohler r/r setup. i have a SL350, so some wires are missing as per most wiring diagrams which refer to CB and CL, but mostly the same. I have used the plug and lead from the rectifier and soldered connectors for the four wires. red/white to the B+ terminal, green to earth with the mounting bolt and the other two to the terminals either end because i read in an early post that it didn’t matter which terminal the AC wires were connected to. After disconnecting the regulator i found the black regulator wire and figured it probably needs to be connected through the ignition to power the stop switch. when i went to connect the battery it sparked, and after about 10 seconds the wires to the r/r became very warm. i disconnected the generator plug and reconnected the battery and it didn’t spark. i have rechecked my wiring and it all looks ok to me. any ideas as to what the problem might be.
cheers, Gary.