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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This question might sound a bit strange. Does anyone know how long the springs for the starter clutch on a 500T should be. I finally got a stator removal tool and got mine apart, and the rollers and caps look good, but the springs are three different lengths. This bike has sat for 20yrs in a barn, so I expect the shortest of the three sat partially compressed the whole time. $4 a pop for the springs seems a bit expensive to me considering I can get similarly sized springs for under a buck at the local hardware store, so I really don't want to replace all three if I don't have to. Also, has anyone tried using an off the shelf spring, rather than the ones from Honda?

Thanks!
 

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Sensei
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....$12 bucks for the RIGHT parts and a starter that works just doesn't seem that expensive to me......Wrong parts may not work correctly, fail sooner or cause binding....then you'll be replacing many more parts.....(caps, rollers, starter sprocket, etc...)...JMHO....
 

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I see the springs listed for $2.42 each at CrotchRocket, and you only need three.
If there's any question about parts like these, just replace 'em, save yourself some grief - you'll have plenty of other stuff to deal with soon enough, if this goes like a "normal" project on these oldies......
 

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I have got to agree with Bills comments, these parts can cause much grief, not the least of which could result in demagnitising your rotor if it all gets lose inside. It happened to mine years ago.
Go for it, it will be one less thing to have any concerns about after all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Went ahead and picked up the correct springs from the shop this afternoon. Still having the same issue with the starter clutch. Cranks over once then lets go and free-wheels. The caps and rollers looked perfect. However, there was some damage to the clutch body that I'm guessing is what is causing the problem. It looks like someone has had it appart before and tore things up pretty good. The inside edge of the outer case of the clutch body looks like about a third of the circumference has a slight bit of the inside edge rolled to the outside and squished flat back against itself, a couple of the screw holes through the outer casing are mangled around the edges, there are a couple of small dents on the outside edge, and it looks like somebody used the corner of a cold chisel the indent and lock the screws in place. All in all, I'm guessing I'm going to have to replace the entire clutch body. I'm just getting ready to start looking for one. CMSNL doesn't have them. Anyone have any suggestions on where I might find one?

Thanks!
 

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Sensei
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Rollers "looked perfect"...Did you mike them?..
Some of the case "damage" sounds factory... Pix would help here...The screws ARE "staked' in place and the lip is rolled onto the main 'body' chunk.....
Did you measure and check the engagement surface on the sprocket?....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Haven't broken out the caliper yet, that was on my list of todo's, since the springs alone didn't fix it. The old springs were definitely bad, so I'm not out anything replacing them. The engagement surface of the sprocket looks good as well, but again, haven't miked it yet. I didn't have time to pull the rotor back off to go more in depth, but now I know what to check. Picked up a whole stator/rotor/clutch set for $25 on ebay. I'll post pics of mine once I get it back off.
 

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Can you post some pics it might be easier if we can see the poroblems as well.
If all else fails try ebay
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'll try and get pictures up after work today. I have no idea what type of oil was in it, the engine is drained right now as I have all the side covers off. I'll be putting standard motorcycle 10W-40 in it once I get the covers back on.
 

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Rhys79 said:
Went ahead and picked up the correct springs from the shop this afternoon. Still having the same issue with the starter clutch. Cranks over once then lets go and free-wheels.
How did you test that after replacing the springs you still have the same problem with starter clutch slipping if your engine is dry?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Drizzled a little oil into both cylinders to keep the rings lubed and tried to crank it twice. Cranked over one rotation and then let go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It was doing the exact same thing before I drained the engine.
 

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Rhys79 said:
It was doing the exact same thing before I drained the engine.
Wasn't THAT before you replaced the springs?.... The start clutch is oil bathed by the sump oil....
 

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The mechanism is pretty simple and just works on friction to start and cintrifical force to keeo the clutch from locking up when the engine is turning.
Now I have to admit that I did drop a slight codsy myself on reassembling the clutch assembly and had similar symptons to yours, I forgot to put back the third roller assembly :oops: Yes a real muppet here, but it seems that it might throw some light on this.

The reason the clutch was gripping and then jumping was that the rollers slipped then the cintrifical force lifted them clear of the shaft.

Now this could be achieved if the rollers were worn or indeed only one was worn enough to allow the assembly to jump enough to lift off the rollers.

I think you must check the rollers first off with a micrometer. Then inspect the housing to see if there is any visible damage that would allow roller to slip which would again have the same effect. I hope that this helps you find the answer
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, didn't get a chance to get it back off tonight. I'll work on it tomorrow. I won't be putting oil back in it for a bit, as I have the right side cover off as well, and won't have a new gasket till at least Monday. I hadn't thought about the clutch being wet, I can see that being a potential issue. I'll post pictures as soon as I get it apart again.
 

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nigelrharris03 said:
The mechanism is pretty simple and just works on friction to start and cintrifical force to keeo the clutch from locking up when the engine is turning.
Now I have to admit that I did drop a slight codsy myself on reassembling the clutch assembly and had similar symptons to yours, I forgot to put back the third roller assembly :oops: Yes a real muppet here, but it seems that it might throw some light on this.

The reason the clutch was gripping and then jumping was that the rollers slipped then the cintrifical force lifted them clear of the shaft.

Now this could be achieved if the rollers were worn or indeed only one was worn enough to allow the assembly to jump enough to lift off the rollers.

I think you must check the rollers first off with a micrometer. Then inspect the housing to see if there is any visible damage that would allow roller to slip which would again have the same effect. I hope that this helps you find the answer
A couple of people have mentioned micing the rollers but no one has mentioned what the dia. of those rollers should be. I've looked through the factory manual quite a bit and can't find any reference to specs.
 

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There seems to be some confusion about HOW the starter clutch operates.....
Centrifugal force/motion has very little to do with it engaging, just disengaging......

As the starter motor spins, it rotates the larger sprocket (sprag) by means of the chain...... The "engagement surface" of the sprag rotates in one direction, causing the rollers (which sit against it) to rotate (roll) in the opposite direction "up" a slightly tapering ramp where they "wedge" against the sprag and the clutch center causing it (and the crankshaft to which it is attached) to "roll-over" together......As soon as the engine fires over, the crankshaft's rotational speed exceeds the sprag's speed (Relatively, so essentially, the sprag is rotating the opposite direction, and the rollers roll back "down" their ramps to a wider spot, and are coerced to now stay there by the expanded springs/caps),... AT this point, the small amount of centrifugal force that does act, tends to keep the rollers in firmer contact with the clutch center (and away from) the now stationary sprag.... You can see why oil is necessary for both initial stiction and to eliminate wear... the tolerances are quite close.... Once the engine stops, that tiny "lift" from centrifugal force is gone, so the rollers once again respond to the sprags motion as you restart the bike...

I hope this isn't too confusing..... :?
 

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Hi John
The Dia is 10.2 mm that is the important measurement
I will add the pages from the manual when I find out why they take so long, is 850kb too big?
 
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