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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Background:

Been building this bike for about two years now, and have been apart of Do The Ton for quite some time. Just figured I would join here to get some other ideas on what could possibly be my issue.

Bike was gotten from a neighbor free, engine was seized so there has been many issues. It has been bored .50 over, wiseco pistons, valve job and head was ported. Frame loop, all new seat, lights, gauges ,handlebars, controls, sheared the kickstart shaft so had to pull the bottom end apart. Brand new wiring harness from Sparck Moto. Literally every part and piece minus the frame and wheels are brand new.
I wired everything up, all lights work correctly. The battery turned out to be fully dead, so have to get a new one. We deduced the starter motor needed to be rebuilt because it wasn't turning with a brand new solenoid. I was using a jump starter/battery charger on 200A setting to test now since no battery as of yet, and still no turning of starter.
What is different from before:
-Before when pressing push start, the solenoid would click one time. Now when you press push start, the solenoid has a continuous buzzing sound. Is this indicative of a bad solenoid?
- I also read how underneath a cb360 ignition coil bracket should be bare metal because apparently that is a grounding spot. So I will need to remove paint from frame there. But that almost doesn't make any sense because all the lights work so I don't seem to have a bad ground.

The dude that built my harness suggested a try using a car battery connected to jumper cables to test and see if the starter will turn from that. I haven't gotten to do that yet though.

Anyone have any ideas?
 

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They usually buzz when there isn't enough voltage to hold them in. Use a car battery, you need a steady supply of amps to turn the starter, chargers don't necessarily do that. Bypass the solenoid by connecting one jumper lead to the starter terminal and the other one to a ground point on the frame. If it doesn't turn then you will need to overhaul the starter. If the starter cranks,direct off the battery, check out the cable connections and the solenoid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've tried bridging the solenoid. No sparks. So that one is ruled out.
I will try bypassing the battery like Mike said, after I try out the battery.

I did rebuild the starter, so it should work. I bought a starter from my buddy off of his parts cb360 and we tested it before removal and it worked. So in theory, bot starters should work but neither have turned.
The charger I used, has a setting that is used for starting my tractor and it is SUPPOSEDLY (guess i could actually measure and see) constant current 200A. But i will still be trying out the car battery just cause there is potential the charger is untrustworthy lol
 

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I'm with the guys.. "fresh" or KNOWN good battery and good clean connections is the first place to start
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Both starters I have turn when direct voltage is applied to the, but not when hooked to the wiring harness. I bought a new solenoid just to see what happens.

But i have some bigger issues, the kickstart wont budge an inch. So back to taking apart the bottom end.
 

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oh dear....paint can be a good insulator, as to starter, brushes maybe or bad connection on the input terminal post, you know of the insulation there?

Kick starter, jammed after putting the clutch cover on??

see cmsnl or similar for how bits go together...

Does the engine turn over by hand with a spanner or similar via the alternator rotor bolt all ok, plugs out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well both starters work, and one I have rebuilt. So unless I messed that up as well, I don't believe it is them.

Yep engine turns over by hand. I had to rebuild the kickstarter once already, so it has to be something I missed or forgot. No other explanation.
 

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Sort out the kick starter first, just in case..........

Then......


1.Both starters work on the bench??

2. No starter works on the bike???

3. the starters on the bike dont even turn at all???? and

4. dont turn the engine at all??????

How is the earth, paint can be an insulator.

What happens when a bench working starter is fitted and wired up, with a new battery ( fully charged ) fitted to the bike, and you turn on the ign,

a. does the neutral light come on when the bike is in neutral,

b.the brake lights work when the brakes are applied, and,

c.what happens when the starter button is pressed??

??
 

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Sensei
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Your lights work because there is a ground "Buss" in the harness for the lighting (Green wires)....
It is NOT of adequate gauge wire to provide the necessary amperage for the starter, You NEED the main (heavy gauge) ground link directly from battery negative to a good, clean frame/engine ground connection...
A "buzzing" solenoid is indicative of a WEAK power supply (bad battery), a defective solenoid, OR a connection failure in the start-button circuit ....
Assuming the starter motor is good, NO spark when "bridging" the solenoid is an open circuit to the starter motor, or a dead battery/inadequate power supply... PERIOD.
Bridging the solenoid with no result or sparks would indicate lack of power supply to the starter, which could be as simple as a fault in either the positive connection to the solenoid or battery, or negative connection to the battery or ground...OR, a break in the heavy wire from solenoid to starter.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
New starter to solenoid wire.
New solenoid.
Brand new battery.
Tried jumping with car battery.

All lights work.
Starter will work if battery is hooked directly to it, with it on the engine (haven't tried with it out of engine).
Solenoid clicks when push start button is pushed, but only clicks once.

Any ideas?
Could it just be a bad ground..
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yessir, I'll do my best to make absolutely sure that ground is good there tonight after work.

Here is a list of all the current grounds I have that go directly to the frame, so MAYBE I missed one as well:

Battery to frame. (large black cable)
Solenoid to frame. (wire coming from solenoid)
I think there is another, but without looking I can't remember what it was.
 

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Sensei
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Solenoid to frame. (wire coming from solenoid)
Which wire from the solenoid do you have grounded to the frame?..... NONE should be......
THAT MAY be the problem.......
The solenoid ground is provided by the neutral and/or clutch safety circuit.....(or start button, depending on year model)

Feel free to phone....540-525-5199....Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Which wire from the solenoid do you have grounded to the frame?..... NONE should be......
THAT MAY be the problem.......
The solenoid ground is provided by the neutral and/or clutch safety circuit.....(or start button, depending on year model)

there are two wires coming from the solenoid. 1 yellow, 1 green (i think both have a red stripe on them as well, but don't remember). yellow to power. green to ground.

I was just looking at the wiring diagram for a stock cb360... and you could be right, maybe the green wire is not supposed to be to ground. I will ask Matt, but on the harness I bought from him (custom) the labels said it connected in this way.
 

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Good to hear some progress is being made.. starter GOOD.. wiring / electical gremlin BAD...
You'll get there, one step at a time.. it's just a matter of elimination ..
 

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Sensei
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The Green/Red stripe wire DOES ultimately go to ground, but only IF the neutral switch is activated and/or the clutch safety switch is in play.....
You CAN just ground it, but that eliminates the "safety" parts......

Still sounds like a chassis ground from battery to engine mount bolt flaw....(dirty or corroded)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Cleaned the ground spot to absolute perfection, still nothing.

Tried bypassing the push button for electric start, solenoid only clicked.
Still bad ground?
 

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Sensei
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Nope..... 99% sure the problem is within one of the heavy wires from solenoid to starter motor, or solenoid to battery....
Here's why:
Starter motor works directly off a battery.... (so good starter motor)
Solenoid activates when start button is depressed...... (so good solenoid, and properly connected, and good start button switch)
NO sparks when bridging the solenoid....
So, either power isn't getting to the solenoid ( bad battery connection),
OR power can't get to the starter motor once through the solenoid (bad solenoid to starter motor connection)

From my Jan. 22 reply............
"Assuming the starter motor is good, NO spark when "bridging" the solenoid is an open circuit to the starter motor, (from the battery) or a dead battery/inadequate power supply... PERIOD."
 
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