CB360 running/charging issues

15008 Views 45 Replies 8 Participants Last post by mktsc, Apr 3, 2009

mktsc

Discussion Starter · Mar 28, 2009

So I picked up this CB360 a couple of weeks back. Previous owner put in a new battery. When I got the bike, it ran pretty good. Over the past week I've been ironing out some running issues, mainly found intake and exhaust leaks. I also adjusted the clutch. So I take it out for a spin, get a few blocks away and come to a stop, and the bike dies. Kick start it, and it doesnt want to stay running. Limp the bike home, and smell clutch. So I chalk it up to a poor adjustment. Readjust, and re-ride. Runs great, idles, get down the block again, and same story. Limp it back home and start thinking. So I've noticed that over the past week of riding, the electric start works less and less, and now it doesnt seem to have enough juice to start the bike. So after doing some research, I figure it's the rectifier. It's original, and I test it via the Clymer manual, and get no continuity. Problem solved, right? Wrong. I get the Radio Shack replacement, and wire it up and check continuity via the Clymer manual procedure again. (negative probe on green wire, positive on red/white, yellow, and pink) Neither of the replacements show continuity. But if I reverse the positive and negative probes and voila, continuity. I recheck the old one, and it shows continuity in this manner too.

Now I'm at a loss. I plug back in the new rectifier, and fire the bike up. Seems to run pretty good, but then again it ran good in the first place anyways, until i get down the street.

Has anyone had similar problems, or have any idea what's going on with the rectifier or what to check next? The bike's run pretty good since I got it, just seems to run worse over the course of the past week. I have no idea why the electric start worked a week ago, and has worked less and less ever since until now when the bike doesnt run good either. One last thing, I noticed that now the headlight gets brighter when I rev the throttle.

Help?

-MK

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21 - 40 of 46 Posts

tbpmusic

· #21 · Mar 30, 2009

mktsc said:
I'm thinking those things coupled with a charged battery should yield promising results. Do you think there's any reason to suspect the coils or condensors?

-MK

It won't hurt to have the timing dead on, for sure.
As for the battery, we'll see.
The condensors and coils are over 30 years old, yeah.........??
One thing at a time........

66Sprint

· #22 · Mar 30, 2009

MK... If you won't or can't follow written directions, I can't help you......
I asked "WHAT is the AC voltage reading between the Yellow and Pink alternator output wires?"... I said nothing about reading either one to green (ground).....
STICK one probe on the yellow and the other on pink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read AC voltage....Rev bike to 3000+....Read again while revved....
The readings you took are meaningless as they simultaneously attempt to read across both AC and DC (which are separate entities)

MNellis

· #23 · Mar 30, 2009

66Sprint said:
MK... If you won't or can't follow written directions, I can't help you......
I asked "WHAT is the AC voltage reading between the Yellow and Pink alternator output wires?"... I said nothing about reading either one to green (ground).....
STICK one probe on the yellow and the other on pink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read AC voltage....Rev bike to 3000+....Read again while revved....
The readings you took are meaningless as they simultaneously attempt to read across both AC and DC (which are separate entities)

You're going to have a heart attack Steve but you beat me to it. But, it's a moot point since he already, maybe needlessly, bought a stator.

Ahhh, the young ones are so impulsive. But, I've got to give him credit for getting his hands dirty. I've got about 70 young adults and kids that work for me and I can count on one hand how many know how to use a socket set.

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #24 · Mar 30, 2009

Guess us "young ones" are as impulsive as you "old ones" are fussy.

I don't have an inability at following directions, the manual says to measure from the "stator" to the other three wires to test the alternator. I apparently incorrectly assumed that because the manual said nothing of the green wire, that the green wire was coming from the stator.

I bought this bike because I love old cars and motorcycles, and grow tired of how everything these days is increasingly controlled by computers. I'm a mechanical engineer, and have always enjoyed working with my hands. I've worked on and serviced countless modern cars and motorcycles, but am really am really interested in learning how to properly operate and maintain this motorcycle which predates me by almost a decade, which is why I came to this website.

I just wish some of you were more patient teachers. Thanks to you who took the time to explain things until I understood, and I apologize if I've offended any of you with my incompetence.

-MK

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66Sprint

· #25 · Mar 30, 2009

MK...No offence, just frustration...And I don't think you incompetent......We are really just trying to find your problem and help you correct it.... Forgive this "old farte's " specificity....... IF at any time, you do not exactly understand why or what we are asking you to do..... ASK back... You may phone me at anytime, and I'll guide you through the steps, and/or explain.....
Steve 540-427-4256

Just for fun, that "green" wire you mention wasn't actually a green with red stripe wire in that same connector was it?...

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #26 · Mar 30, 2009

No harm done, sometimes it takes me a few times before I actually digest something. I'm more of a "learn by doing" type of person, and will be the first to tell you that when it comes to electronics, I'm no genius...

I appreciate your help, and can't wait to get this old girl running right.

-Matt

Bird76Mojo

· #27 · Mar 30, 2009

Now you kids play nice now umkay.... :lol:

GB :mrgreen:

66Sprint

· #28 · Mar 30, 2009

No GB!... If I can't be lead mechanic, I'm taking my torque wrench and going home!....ROTFLMAO!

tbpmusic

· #29 · Mar 30, 2009

66Sprint said:
Just for fun, that "green" wire you mention wasn't actually a green with red stripe wire in that same connector was it?...

Steve-

You're right of course, light green/red is the neutral circuit - I incorrectly referenced it as green/yellow, which is the brake lamp circuit.
I edited my original post to rectify my error......

leethal

· #30 · Mar 30, 2009

mktsc....I am similar to you in many ways, in that I am constantly trying to learn about the workings of theses bikes (proud 360 owner

), pounding my brain with information that I wish would sink in first time round. But thats never the case.
I recommend you take some time to thoroughly read through all the relevent info on this site several times before asking questions. This forum is proud of the fact that we are nice people, flamers f*@k off I say. No need to feel threatened by ye olde fartes impatience. I'm in the same kinda boat as you...but I'm sailing about a mile up front

Keep up the efforts mate.
Lee

krukster86

· #31 · Mar 30, 2009

Rep for Mechanical Engineers WOOT!

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #32 · Mar 31, 2009

The saga continues:

I did as you asked Steve, and measured AC voltage between yellow and pink on the alternator plug. It didn't want to stay running, so the idle voltage is approximate.

idle: ~20V
3K: ~55V

Based on the fact that the voltage is increasing with engine revs, I'm starting to doubt that it's the stator. For $20, I'm still glad I have an extra though.

So what's next? Regulator? Coils/Condensers?

Also, I got an impact hammer and got my alternator cover off. FYI, there is oil behind that cover so make sure you have a catch pan readily available. I'm an idiot...

I did notice something odd when I got the cover off. There is what looks to be a coiled up length of fabric wire insulation jammed between two of the stator coils. What is this? Is it supposed to be there? (big pic for clarity)

edit: It appears to be on all the eBay stators too, must belong...

Thanks in advance...

-MK

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66Sprint

· #33 · Mar 31, 2009

MK... That hides a twist/solder joint between separately wound coils, and is normal.......

Next step..... Plug alt wiring back into harness...... Start bike.... Read DC Volts across
battery terminals at idle and at revs... Should get 11V+ or - a tad at idle, 13.7 to 14.2 revved to 3500/4000....
.. If much below 11 at idle, charge battery, then start and test again....
If it goes over 14.2 you have a bad REGULATOR....
If it ONLY comes up a little at revs (below 12.5) you have a bad RECTIFIER...
.... IF you get the 11+- and the 13.7 or so at revs, you have a bad BATTERY....

Analysis complete....Please let us know results ... I'd bet bad battery...... Steve

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #34 · Mar 31, 2009

Last time I checked voltage at the battery, I measured 11.5 at idle and 11.3 at 3K. I replaced the rectifier with the $4 Radio Shack rectifier.

Someone else in here said that the regulator could not be allowing enough voltage to the battery. Does this sound right?

I think I'm going to pick up the $13 Ford regulator, and a new battery and try it again. I've been talking to some motorcycle guys at work here, and they seem mirror your suspicion that the battery is at fault...

Thanks.

-MK

66Sprint

· #35 · Apr 1, 2009

MK...Just unplug the regulator ( Yellow, black and green wires) and do the test again reading DC at battery.... If it stays at 11.something, its the rectifier.... if the voltage rises, it WAS the regulator ....Don't rev too high (Don't let volts go over 14.5)

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #36 · Apr 1, 2009

I was going to replace the battery, since it's dead, then re-read all the voltages. Should I check them prior to replacement?

Thanks again for all your help.

-MK

66Sprint

· #37 · Apr 1, 2009

The battery is presumed to be good and fully charged for these tests.
.... If it's bad, replace then re-check...

mktsc

Discussion Starter · #38 · Apr 1, 2009

New battery. Bike starts but won't stay running. Measuring 12.3VDC at battery at idle (bike won't idle), 12.5VDC at 3500rpm. Replaced rectifier again, same results. Unplugged regulator as you instructed, still no increase in voltage at revs. I checked, and get spark from both plugs.

I bought the Ford regulator, but not sure how to hook it up (i.e. which pins go where...)

It also feels physically hard to kick start, feels real "tight"

-MK

kirkn

· #39 · Apr 2, 2009

After all that, you have 12.3 volts at idle (such as it is) and 12.5 volts at revs.

While the increase with revs isn't as high as one would like, it IS increasing, and overall, the system is charging the battery. You could run the bike like that forever, IMHO.

I'd quit looking at the charging system, and start looking elsewhere for any other running issues.

Good luck.

Kirk

MNellis

· #40 · Apr 2, 2009

kirkn said:
After all that, you have 12.3 volts at idle (such as it is) and 12.5 volts at revs.

While the increase with revs isn't as high as one would like, it IS increasing, and overall, the system is charging the battery. You could run the bike like that forever, IMHO.

I'd quit looking at the charging system, and start looking elsewhere for any other running issues.

Good luck.

Kirk

That's a brand new battery and those are the voltages I would expect to see even when running. Even with a new battery he should be seeing 13.7 vdc or so when revving. I'll bet if he turns the headlight on when it revving he'll see a voltage drop back down to under 12 vdc. He posted some voltages from the alternator idle: ~20V
3K: ~55V but they don't look right to me. I suspect he may have had the meter set for DC and when taking the reading directly from the alternator, obviously, it need to be set for AC.

Stay focused on the issue...the charging system. 'It also feels physically hard to kick start, feels real "tight" ' doesn't mean anything as it relates to the charging system.

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