Honda Twins banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just read a post about the elusive neutral issue -- saying that it's not so much the clutch cable adjustment but a matter of adding tension to a spring that is accessed from the top of the transmission, under the big bolt with the bent washer by padding it with washers or a nut. Anyone know this one?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,549 Posts
When I got my 360 it had issues with finding Neutral. I took the stop mechanism apart and cleaned it and it went back to work. I also changed the ball as it had sorta worked out of round in one place.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #4


I pulled my -- whatever it's called apart and nothing seems dirty or deformed. Should I pad the spring with some tiny washers, or is this a dead-end?
 

·
Sensei
Joined
·
27,018 Posts
Your pic shows the "neutral stopper" or neutral detent assembly, and it appears to be fine....
MOST 350 shifting problems that I have encountered are from incorrect placement/adjustment, or wear of the shift pedal linkage assembly, OR improperly adjusted clutch lifter mechanisms.... I have seen damaged shift-forks, gears, and drums from transmissions being "KICKED" into gear... Properly adjusted and set shifter and clutch mechanisms require only a gentle, allbeit positive motion of the pedal to shift...."Kicking" it into ANY gear should NOT be necessary......

Outobie will be a better source for what to do about this problem as he deals with 350's almost exclusively.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Ah okay then. Shifting through the gears is pretty easy. I meant to say that to find neutral I usually have to find it by using my hand to get the feel of the shifting, as opposed to using my toe. I always wear steel toes when I ride, and was thinking that was why I couldn't feel for neutral just right, but there are times -- when the engine is warmed up that I can't get into neutral until I've shut down the engine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Here's a note that may or may not count for anything:

I picked up another neutral stopper on eBay and noticed that the spring on the 'new' item is about 1mm longer than the 'old' one -- could make a difference, yes? ...um, NO

I've done TWO things: I've adjusted the clutch cable and changed out the neutral stopper. Getting into neutral is harder than ever. Before, I could find it by hand, but now I really have to finesse it. This suggests that clutch adjustment really could be the answer - ?
OR -- is it really a fork issue OR a shift drum roller, right? And, I'm guessing that the only way to determine which is by visual inspection of the parts - ?

Some days the kickstarter works, some days not. By that, I mean that it doesn't engage to turn the engine. That was the case today. Clutch adjustment?

Okay -- get ready for this...

I just read a thread on the sohc4 forum by another noob and his trouble getting into neutral. Here's an excerpt:
"So let me get this right, If I'm at a stop and in first gear (holding the clutch in of course), it can be difficult to get in neutral even with a properly functioning bike?
So to allieviate this problem I should be shifting into neutral while the bike is still in motion? "

He and I were unaware that we're supposed to get into neutral while the bike is still rolling.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well, I dunno. No one has chimed in with a definite answer. Since I posted, I've tried to get into neutral while rolling. It takes coordination, which I lack, but I have been able to get the bike into neutral several times, but most often when I've just come to a stop. Now, I do have oil leaking on both sides of the engine, and I've seen posts that say that a low oil level will also make finding neutral more difficult. The first time I changed oil I was shocked to see that the PO had just flooded the crankcase with oil, and I was not prepared to catch all of it, resulting in a spill. So, it looks like his idea of tending an oil leak was just to add a couple more quarts of oil!
I'm about to order a set of gaskets and stuff to better button up the engine. I also need to change out a lower engine case, so this will hopefully get done all at once.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
670 Posts
You should always be in gear when moving.
Shifting into neutral can be a little difficult at times... The shifter tends to miss neutral and go to second. Sometimes if the shifter is missing neutral while.running, I have to rock the bike slightly forward to engage it. Apparently this is somewhat common.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Since this is my first bike, I have nothing to which I can compare the shifting. Glad to know that it's not just me. I can find neutral now and then and take advantage of it to rest my hand.
I took a leisurely ride yesterday so I could better hear the transmission and was a little concerned because there was a slight rattle that could have been transmission parts trying to slip or I suppose it could have been any number of other things that need tightening. For a while it was the tach mounting nuts. Now I have new ones so that's gone quiet. The bike has never popped out of gear on me, I'm happy to say. There have been a couple of times that I felt like I found a false neutral while downshifting, but that might have been the real thing, after all!
Hard to say. I'll have new gaskets soon and will see what turns up when I dig in, perhaps.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
147 Posts
My CL350 is my first bike, too. I was having a bit of trouble finding neutral as well.

I found it to be real easy to shift into neutral at a stop.
Shift all the way down to first,
Plant both feet on the ground, then walk the bike backwards til the chain stops.
Roll forwards and simultaneously shift /lightly/ up to neutral. It should be a real minor click.
Then, just for a precaution, S L O W L Y release your clutch.

I stalled out a couple of times behind traffic :/

I also hear something rattle near the kickstarter when I shift into neutral and idle. I found out it usually happens when I shift up to 2nd and roll slightly forward and then kick back into neutral again. I'm hoping my kickstart gear springs aren't in need of replacing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the tip! I'll try that tomorrow.
When I've found neutral, it's mostly by feel because the neutral light doesn't come on until I finesse the shifter a bit, and yes I am always careful to slowly let out the clutch :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,549 Posts
Now mine has been doing that little bit lately. It WILL be in neutral BUT the light won't come on until I let the clutch out JUST A HAIR. :roll:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,863 Posts
keep in mind that the design of these transmissions is a bit crude my modern standards and there are no synchro rings.
sometimes it helps to double clutch if you are having trouble finding a gear.

you should also not skip gears like you can on modern bikes.
positively shift into each gear letting the clutch out for each one.
shift while moving and dont force it into gear.

it does take some getting used to the shifting on vintage.

so far I haven't heard anything that makes me think there is a problem other than you getting used to the feel of how to shift these.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I have to confess that I have been doing multiple shifts without letting the clutch out each time. This is usually the case when downshifting. I know I've read NO MULTI-SHIFTING, but I just presumed it meant while upshifting, like one might do with a car transmission. I've never tried to skip a gear while upshifting on the bike. So, I'll be in 5th, see the red light ahead and pull the clutch and click down to 1st before letting the clutch out. This is WRONG, I gather.
I guess I've been expecting something like a synchro-ring to help me out.
I learned to operate the bike transmission from a short YouTube vid that was not vintage-specific!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
Multiple up/down-shifts aren't exactly wrong, but they won't do your engine too many favours. Remember, the engines used in these bikes are fairly simple and agricultural in comparison with today's machines. The components were - like the bikes - designed to be used by folks who were used to a much slower pace of life (traffic) than we are - and were also prepared to put up with some foibles in their machines.

If you pull the bottom end apart, you'll find the shift mechanism is very simple - basically, a drum and three forks with locating pins. Rotate the drum and the pins move the forks from side to side - and the fork prongs move cogs along shafts selecting different gear ratios as they go. Engaging the engine through all the gears will give the cogs a fighting chance of meshing correctly and will reduce wear in the long run.

As for neutral, don't forget the light activator on the end of the shift drum has a very small patch that comes into contact with the switch to complete the neutral circuit (its under the rear left hand engine side cover just above the drive sprocket). Consequently, it's possible to be in neutral but the light not come on - and I've seen a few switches that are missing the contact point (basically a blob of solder on the end of an inverted copper V) which reduces the efficiency of the circuit.

You may also find that it takes a while to get the three adjustments on the clutch cable/actuator to settle in a position that allows just enough lift so the bike can be shifted with the minimum of fuss. I've worked out how to set one of my 350's and it's real smooth; I'm still working on the other one . . .

HTH
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,863 Posts
theradiostar said:
I have to confess that I have been doing multiple shifts without letting the clutch out each time. This is usually the case when downshifting. I know I've read NO MULTI-SHIFTING, but I just presumed it meant while upshifting, like one might do with a car transmission. I've never tried to skip a gear while upshifting on the bike. So, I'll be in 5th, see the red light ahead and pull the clutch and click down to 1st before letting the clutch out. This is WRONG, I gather.
I guess I've been expecting something like a synchro-ring to help me out.
I learned to operate the bike transmission from a short YouTube vid that was not vintage-specific!
I believe you have identified you issue...downshift though each gear letting the clutch out each time and it should be much easier to find neutral

and just think...the cb350s were a big improvement over the CB305 transmissions they replaced
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
323 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Finally, another aha! moment! Thanks for illuminating this for me. Yes, I've seen the little contact gizmo for the neutral light and was amazed that it worked in the first place. Mine was heavily caked with clay dirt and oil. Thinking about ordering a new one before too much longer.
There's rain in the forecast tomorrow, but if it misses us then I'll make a run using better shifting etiquette. I hadn't even considered that the bike's design was for a slower pace of life, but I can appreciate that. I took a leisurely ride on Sunday, obeying the speed limits everywhere and was passed by impatient drivers in their massive mobiles just so they could sit at the light/sign for a few more seconds in front of me. For some reason, a few drivers just had to drive 10mph over the speed limit. Now, this makes me wonder -- there isn't a chance that my speedo is reading 10mph over, is there? You've seen my bike -- it's my avatar and I have posted it in the pics section. The rim is correct. Haven't replaced the speedo cable. Could it be mis-reading???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
Unlikely the speedo's that far out if there's nothing wrong with it. They were often set to read 5-10% higher than the actual road speed - to make sure folks doing an indicated 31-2mph in a 30mph zone didn't get caught for speeding - but you'd have to be going pretty quick to be 10mph out.

Newer vehicles may have more accurate speedos, so you could work out what speed you're doing by matching the speed of a friend in another vehicle who can give you a wave when you reach a given velocity. But TBH, I wouldn't worry about it. Just mooch about at your own pace and let everyone else do their own thing.
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top