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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone a recommendation for a 450's cam follower resurfacing service incl. prices. The camshafts on my project seem to be ok, so I would just have to send the followers.
 

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Delta (deltacam.com) does decent work for a very affordable price compared to MegaCycle. CMC supposedly has gotten into the mix, but I don't know their pricing or work quality as yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Delta (deltacam.com) does decent work for a very affordable price compared to MegaCycle. CMC supposedly has gotten into the mix, but I don't know their pricing or work quality as yet.
Thanks Tom. Think it was something like 250$ incl. the two cams on an exchange program basis but I can't find it anymore on the CMC website. I'll check deltacam.
 

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Thanks Tom. Think it was something like 250$ incl. the two cams on an exchange program basis but I can't find it anymore on the CMC website. I'll check deltacam.
Not at all surprised to hear that price from CMC, they tend to be higher on lots of stuff. Be advised that the email link you find at Delta's website may not work (hasn't in a long time despite them being aware). You might have to call them if things take a bit longer than quoted, they're a pretty busy group. Also, they clean up your cams (as opposed to exchange for your core) and the last price I got from them recently was $65 per cam and $6 per follower. As for communication, if all else fails go to FB and look for Jon Bodwell, he's the owner, and PM him
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
... As for communication, if all else fails go to FB and look for Jon Bodwell, he's the owner, and PM him[/QUOTE]

Damn, I've never been on FB and do not intend to change my mind. :mad: I'll call them anyway and see how it will work out. Thanks for your advise. I'll use my wife's FB in case the communication turns slow...
 

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Well, I'm not on it much except for family interests, but I can tell you that it works sometimes when other methods fall short. I just recently shamed a potato product supplier for a bad batch (no other way to contact them except a prompt-filled phone number) and they made things right - sent us about 8 coupons for free products.
 

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I sent a cam follower to Delta maybe nine years ago. They did a beautiful job grinding it down and did it quickly. I was pleased since it cost so little, even with postage. But, when I installed it I found it was now cut to where I could not get anywhere near the required gap. I blamed myself since I had not asked for it to be renewed to it's original profile/thickness.

My thinking is that the six buck fee (I recall paying something close to that) for the grind is just that. I suspect it would cost considerably more to have the bearing surface built back up/welded/hardened) to beyond the original height, then ground and faced to where it once was.

Has this been your experience? Will I need to be more specific next time?

I did a budget rebuild on my 450 motor about a year ago, and decided to reuse some followers I had that, although obviously dished, still allowed me to set them with the proper gap. That was about 4,000 miles ago, and I have done two valve adjustments since, with only minor tweaks required.
 

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I have more questions.

How much wear of the bearing surface of the follower is too much? Does the wear affect performance if I can still make the adjustment to spec?

I've got visibly dished followers in my 450 motor now but still have lots of adjustment left and it runs like a raped ape. I did a budget rebuild last year- split the case, new rings in the original bore (with no less than 18,000 miles on the bores) and a valve grind by the local machine shop.
 

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My experience with them was specifically for a lobe and follower that got eaten up badly due to intermittent oil flow early in my build. They repaired the cam and compensated for the lost material by adding some to the tip of the follower where it pushes the valve. I made them aware of the situation prior to their work, so they knew how to approach it. I'm a little surprised they didn't recognize the same need in your case, but as long ago as it was it's possible they were just starting to do vintage Honda stuff
 

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I have more questions.

How much wear of the bearing surface of the follower is too much?
Are you talking about the pivot point of the follower where the adjustment shaft goes through it? The FSM has a wear spec for it. I've personally never seen one worn beyond usable in that area
 

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Yes, Tom, I think it was due to inexperienced parties on both ends of the transaction, and it was 10 years ago-that's when I got the bike and did the top end rebuild the first time. But, I still think Six Bucks is WAY too cheap for anything more than a quick grind. I still have the one I sent them, and three others I'd love to have restored, but I'm in no hurry.

Btw, I dig your three-photo avatar but I suffer seizures when it's on my screen! LOL
 

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Btw, I dig your three-photo avatar but I suffer seizures when it's on my screen! LOL
It's actually a 5 picture gif... and no one else has commented on it as yet, good or bad. It's a combination of my CL450 from high school, my old 450 drag bike, my current 450 brat build, my first CBX, and me last year with a 6 month beard. I know that when I have 2 posts in a row, it's funny to see them both moving in time with each other on the left of the screen... just trying to do something different - sorry about the detrimental effects!
 

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No, the wear is on the surface that contacts the cam (and maybe the cam lobe itself-which does not look worn like the follower does), which is where I put the feeler gauge.

The last time I checked the valves I used the feeler gauge (.002) on the first valve, but then put it aside and set the others by carefully replicating the 'feel' of the first, correctly adjusted follower, as I tried to move it through it's range of motion. Giving the follower (or rocker) a good shake is something I've always done during a valve adjustment (I had about a dozen air-cooled VW's in my life).

That's not so say I skipped using the feeler gauge on the VW's. That gap is more like .004 iirc and too wide for the method I last used on my 450. .002 is such a small gap that I found it much easier to go with the 'shake' method of adjusting- and much less frustrating! One less tool to be juggling.
 

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I'm joking about the seizures and I do like the photos! I'm considering a bushy beard when mine turns white- shouldn't be much longer since it's almost all gray now.
 

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Yeah, you have to compensate for wear when they get to the point where the feeler gauge is less than fully effective, and you've obviously gotten a handle on it from past experience. The surface that wears isn't the bearing surface but rather the "rocker arm" surface, these are just designed differently because they're below the cam in between cam and valve. The key to long life of followers in a 450 engine is, in large part, careful warmup. The 450 doesn't puddle any oil under the valve train like other engines do and the oil flow takes between 1 and 2 full minutes to reach the top end - so keep the revs as low as possible for at least that long while waiting for the oil flow to up the 2 right side cylinder studs, fill the cams and then come out of the orifices in the cams, where the follower surface lubrication comes from.
 

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Yeah, I can hear it get a lot quieter during the first two minutes once the oil reaches the valve train and I guess fully wets the cam chain, etc.

I've been imagining a system to "pre-lube' the valve train with some sort of oil- feed that plumbs through the valve covers and actuated by a hand pump or something and can be stowed on top of the motor once its started.
 

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One of our members did something with a pump, I think - or at least he talked about it at one point, something you could run prior to startup to get some fresh flow up there. It really isn't a big deal as long as you treat it properly with respect to the waiting period... I clearly remember when I got my first one in high school (CL450K4), and was working at the local Honda shops as well, and with stock exhaust you could definitely hear a "hissing" sound get a lot quieter after 1 to 2 minutes. I picked up on that sound right away and used that as my guide to enough warmup, even when I was in a hurry. It helps to run high-zinc content oil and I add some zinc additive to mine as well. It also helps a lot to have it in a good state of tune so that it idles, or at least runs well enough to keep it running at idle, when it's cold. Guys that fire them up and drive off like you would a car today are the ones who pay the price down the road.
 

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To be clear about the wear I'm describing, it is on the face of the cam follower where the Int. or Ex. camshaft lobe bumps it(contact surface A), and not at it's tip(contact surface B) which contacts the valve end. There is no discernible wear on the much smaller 'camshaft' upon which the cam follower (barely) rotates.

My concerns about the dishing at contact surface A that results when the cam follower wears (as a result of skipping the warm up period, improper adjustment, dirty oil or cam follower shafts that are 180 degrees out) is whether or not it affects the lift and/or duration of the valve opening. My thinking tells me that as long as I can adjust the valve(s) to their required 'lash' any wear at contact surface A is irrelevant, as long as those contact points aren't pitted or scored.
 

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I'm a lot more mindful about the warm up period with my two runners. My KLR 250 also has issues with top end oiling and excessive cam wear.

As for oil additives, do you have any issues with that stuff getting to the clutch? I noticed you use a 'red' assembly grease during your builds. I've always used a moly assembly grease but worry it will mess with my clutch. So far so good, but I'm about to re-assemble (sooner or later lol) my sloper motor and am concerned about using the Moly based stuff.
 
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