[ancientdad]

I hesitate to start this thread so early, as it will span over what will probably be a ridiculous amount of time... but I was afforded such a great start to this effort that I wanted to make mention of things before the moment got cold. During our awesome, circuitous trip through the Carolinas culminating in the Meltdown Vintage show weekend, HT member 12ozPBR and I cooked up a nice deal for both of us - I had some trading material and he graciously sourced some parts I'd been unable to afford previously and had lost hope that I'd be able to accumulate for my second 450 project (this is why I live in t-shirts and blue jeans, eat at home from my wife's kitchen almost always and rarely vacation anywhere ). The trip was both enjoyable and fruitful, and as a result I'm now the proud owner of my long-sought-after 4 speed bottom end, almost entirely complete, and a good used CB450K6 frame with no title which is immaterial to my plans. Oh, and one bonus in the deal... an excellent, hand-crafted engine stand for all my future 450 rebuilds courtesy of one of the nicest guys in SC. He donated his to me and plans to build another one for himself, that's the kind of quality individual he is.

So the lift is now occupied with the start of the next endeavor... and a trip to the local outdoor scrapyard near me that I previously posted will be in order, to find a small front end and the other running gear missing from the minimums it will need to be a roller, and then the big disassembly of at least one of my two spare engines to scavenge additional parts for the top end. This will give me the opportunity to finally use the bigger cams I got from Terry Naughtin (.414" lift, 280° duration) and go total loss on the ignition, along with more of the same or better that was done to my street-legal bike. SO looking forward to getting this started...

first, a new mementos for the garage from the area - to be more appropriately mounted later when I get the ladder out of the corner, along with the entire poster set from the Meltdown show history



and the goods, including the engine stand on the right



the little red monster will undoubtedly be giving this pile the stinkeye as it watches the slow progress... and it will be slow (unless some magic cash windfall comes my way)

 

[FrisianWheel]

Wow, that sounds like another great bike will be in the making soon. I‘m looking forward following your project no matter how slow it is and I‘m already curious about the color scheme
Please don’t get me wrong but budget...? Lol I think we all have the tendency to wanting to make things better the second time...

 

[cb360j]

Congratulations, and good luck on your endeavors of high speed!

 

[ancientdad]

Congratulations, and good luck on your endeavors of high speed!

thanks - but I'm pretty familiar with the challenge of going as fast and quick as one can in 1320 feet (or 660 depending on the track available) and frankly, I missed doing it over the last 40+ years since I was a regular participant until recently

 

[ancientdad]

Wow, that sounds like another great bike will be in the making soon. I‘m looking forward following your project no matter how slow it is and I‘m already curious about the color scheme
Please don’t get me wrong but budget...? Lol

thanks Gunnar... but this one will HAVE to built more cheaply as the budget demands so, and as for the color scheme... lots of rattle-can gloss and satin black is likely :mrgreen: and a splash of silver and red here and there depending on the accompanying pieces

 

[Alan F.]

Perhaps some of us that do diy zinc and nickel plating can lend a hand with adding some shine here and there.

 

[ancientdad]

Perhaps some of us that do diy zinc and nickel plating can lend a hand with adding some shine here and there.

Alan, that would be great... I know a lot of the stuff that comes from Mauro's outdoor boneyard near me will be heavily rusted. I'm going to look for a small front end like from a 125 to 175, plus a complete rear wheel from a 450 or 500T and much of that hardware will need some cleanup. Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind!

 

[chaindrivecharlie]

Tom, is Lovengreens boneyard still in north Tampa? Man we use to scrounge that place for parts!?
Im for sure subscribing to this, is that stand set up for the front of the engine?

 

[12ozPBR]

Tom, I feel like I have invested interest in this project so I’m really looking forward to this one coming together, no matter how long it takes. Good luck with it!

 

[ancientdad]

Tom, is Lovengreens boneyard still in north Tampa? Man we use to scrounge that place for parts!��
Im for sure subscribing to this, is that stand set up for the front of the engine?

Lovengreen's was actually in northwest Tampa, on Dale Mabry just south of Waters... but it's been gone for years. It was the very first place I ever worked, for a couple months in the spring of '70 and only on Saturday mornings. I used to break stuff down and hang up the parts, mostly gas tanks and fenders. I think John gave me a job to make my Dad happy, as we were in there a lot ourselves and I'm quite sure my Dad talked him into it - kinda like my first real bike job at Honda Village later that year during summer vacation from school, when my Dad told Albert "Chic" Fortna Jr. shortly after he opened the place in that dump strip center on Nebraska north of Bearss that I knew as much as anyone he had working for him... (while I was cringing standing next to him thinking "Daddy, what the hell are you doing??"). I used to get John's lunch every Saturday at the Tennessean restaurant on my lime green CA72, then shortly after lunch he'd close up and I was done for the morning. He died in '85 I think - hard to believe it's been that long - and his wife ran the place for a little while, then sold off as much as she could and closed it up. The building is gone now too, empty lot next to Joe Finan's still-standing House (formerly Kawasaki) Cycle World... check these out



and yes, Chris set up the stand to fit the front of the engine using the motor mount plates and one of the 2 large bolts underneath in the rear

 

[ancientdad]

Tom, I feel like I have invested interest in this project so I’m really looking forward to this one coming together, no matter how long it takes. Good luck with it!

Thanks Chris - and good to see you aren't working late every night! You DO have a vested interest, no doubt... but you know it will be a while before this thing gets off the lift

 

[ancientdad]

So I had to do a little something earlier this afternoon... couldn't just see it sitting there

ah, the simplicity of the 4 speed trans, only one detent roller to deal with - and I have 2 crankshafts to work with as well



it's a start, but a lot of rust to take care of... and lots of time to do it

 

[oupa]

DO IT!!!!

Keep an open mind and anything is possible.
Looking forward to the adventure.

 

[chaindrivecharlie]

Oh wow, does that bring back the memorys! Thanks Tom for sharing the photos and helping me remember where it was exactly. There use to be a big old movie theater just east of there. I remember seeing the exorcist there way back when.?
Sorry to hear Lovengreens is gone, kinda like the Florida we grew up in is gone. Did not mean to hijack your thread buddy.
I think im gonna build me a engine stand, your giving me the itch.?

 

[FrisianWheel]

Interesting to see your 4 speed case. I wasn't really aware that they are THAT different... Does it have 4 lubrication channels going to the top?

 

[ancientdad]

Interesting to see your 4 speed case. I wasn't really aware that they are THAT different... Does it have 4 lubrication channels going to the top?

Those o-rings visible in the picture are the feeds to the main bearings on the crank and frankly, since it had been 45 years since working with a 4 speed bottom end, I'd forgotten about them myself. The early cranks were very different (in my opinion, more durable) as they have cast bearing outers with tabs that bolt directly to studs in the upper case. The matching of the crankcase halves are not how the crank is retained in the bottom end as with the 5 speed, and I've never personally seen a main bearing issue (under normal conditions) on a 4 speed. My primary reason for wanting the 4 speed bottom end is the closer ratio between 3rd and 4th, less rev drop at higher speeds when wind resistance is greater and higher overall gearing helps reduce acceleration more on the far end of the track. It literally made almost a half-second difference in the quarter mile (with the same top end engine parts) on my previous machine long ago by going from the 5 speed, going through the traps in 4th gear, to the 4 speed in the same gear because the 3rd to 4th shift on the 5 speed is wider (.269 difference vs .131), plus the 5 speed is even higher geared in 5th at .844 vs .903 (4th/high gear) in the 4 speed so no matter if you gear it lower overall and go through in 5th on the 5 speed, it's still a larger drop in revs. The only downside to the 4 speed, but it's much less a factor, is the wider ratio between 1st and 2nd which makes for a larger drop in revs - but at a lower speed and lower overall gear ratio, making it easier to overcome when the bike is getting moving and the wind resistance is less. All this to avoid spending 5 to 10 times as much for a close-ratio 5 or 6 speed trans set... but it's also nostalgic for me too. As for the top end oiling passages, they're pretty much the same with the other main difference between the bottom ends in that area being the early, smaller piston oil pump (16mm vs the later 19mm) and I plan to use a later pump on it. Finally, the shift mechanism is actually a little simpler as well with only one detent roller (the smaller one) on the "star" plate, no larger "pizza cutter" to have wear on it and affect shifting

 

[ancientdad]

Sorry to hear Lovengreens is gone, kinda like the Florida we grew up in is gone. Did not mean to hijack your thread buddy.

No worries on this thread, it's going to be a long one and we may as well enjoy ourselves with a little banter between updates on the bike, as it's not going to be done in a hurry... and if you think the Florida we knew is gone, you should see my old neighborhood in Lutz now - there used to be 3 houses on the first-unpaved shell road we moved to, later paved... now it almost looks like a development. we were talking about Gerry and Jeff a couple days ago... here they are in better times - this will stroll you down memory lane! (kinda wish I could run into Jeff these days but I'd have no idea where to start)

Gerry, with my CBX and his GS1100 on the right next to each other, at Cabbage Patch during Bike Week around '81



Jeff and I at Bike Week the same year, at the hotel



Jeff and his girlfriend at the track, same year, sitting on his GS1100 (back to us, with hat)



Gerry, my ex-wife and I in the mountains northeast of where he lived in Atlanta, 1980 - we rode up to visit with him

 

[oupa]

Jeff and his girlfriend at the track, same year, sitting on his GS1100 (back to us, with hat)

View attachment 281318

I think the one thing I miss most about the 70's & 80's is tube tops and halters. Yeah, I know that's two things but you had to be there.

 

[ancientdad]

I think the one thing I miss most about the 70's & 80's is tube tops and halters. Yeah, I know that's two things but you had to be there.

Oh yeah...

 

[Alan F.]

Is that a CB750A in the last pic?
I don't think I've ever seen one look so cool, that could have made a good brochure photo.