[Richard_Pitman]

Just tried running the engine in my 'new' 175, with the points cover removed.

I knew to expect the odd spark now and then, but there seems to be more than I expected.

Can the condenser fail in such a way ? I assumed that they either worked or didn't work, no halfway stage ?

Could just be dirty points, I suppose ?

( I have Charlies place ignition on my other 175, so can't compare with that one.)

 

[krukster86]

IIRC a bike can run with a broken condenser, it is just that the points are going to get fouled quickly (every 10 miles or so) due to the excessive sparking.

 

[JamesPal]

Arcing points is a sure sign weak condenser or the coil is drawing too much current. Are your coils stock? If not what is the Ohm rating>

 

[Richard_Pitman]

Thanks for the replies.

It has the original stock coil, with new NGK plug caps. I've just been rooting around in the loft, and found another original ignition coil, a new (pattern) condenser, and a points back plate with new points on it, so plenty of bits to substitute.

I've also got a spare coil from my CB600. This uses the wasted spark, 4 cylinder with two coils. Coils are intended for CDI ignition, but certainly make a spark when momentarily connected to 12v. Might be worth an experiment ...

Cheers

Richard

 

[ashimotok0]

Don't use a Cdi coil on standard ignition Richard ...much lower resistance than your standard coil. Yes condensers go leaky. If you want to send me them I can measure capacitance and leakage for you ...I will pay return postage.

Cheers

 

[bilbikek411]

I have found that condensers have a limited shelf-life and can only take so much sitting on a shelf with-out being operated/cycled before they break-down.
I recommend that you find condensers that have a type of date/code on them so you can see the date of manufacture;I was told by an electronics specialist not to use any that have a shelf life of over 5 years.

 

[JamesPal]

There are many different types of capacitors. The life span is different for many of them. The sizing is not that critical. Back n the day is was standard practice to replace them every tune up.

 

[Simo]

This thread came up a little while ago
http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/33-tune-up/81874-obsolete-condenser-woes.html

 

[ashimotok0]

Don't use a Cdi coil on standard ignition Richard ...much lower resistance than your standard coil. Yes condensers go leaky. If you want to send me them I can measure capacitance and leakage for you ...I will pay return postage.

Cheers

Interesting...I.will grab a load of old Honda Capacitors and measure the capacitance and leakage accurately ..... mostly from 1969 bikes and mostly original fitment....I also have nOS Daiichi which have been stored for over 10 years unused ..they get a bad press on forums I am on.

 

[Richard_Pitman]

I haven't had much to do with contact breakers recently.

The last ( 4 wheeled ) vehicle I owned that had points was my MG Metro engine Austin Allegro Estate. I remember buying a custom distributor for that engine from, if I remember correctly, Alden Automotive.

Back then, changing the points, condenser and spark plugs was a standard service item on the Mini I had before the Allegro, and I used to buy those parts off the shelf at Halfords.

Wouldn't any old 12v condenser do the job ? Thinking of the 'A' series part again.

For example: Lucas 25D Points & Condenser Set Lucas 25D replacement points rotor arm and condensor mini Land Rover MGB lotus Austin Morris Reliant Triumph [PO3] - £2.99 : Electronic Ignition, Home of the Powerspark electronic ignition and electronic distributor

 

[Simo]

From all I've read, any 12v condenser should work fine. According to the link I posted any.. .22uF 600v capacitor for that matter

 

[Richard_Pitman]

Just had time for a brief fiddle today.

I tried my aftermarket CB175 condenser. For some reason, that came with a male and a female connector, unlike the twin female connectors of the Honda item. Once rewired and fitted, engine ran. Less arcing at the points now.

I also found my £2.75 'A' series condenser, added an extra wire then fitted it. Again, bike started and ran, with less sparks at the points.

Problem with both of the above condensers is that mount is too small to attach to a head nut, so I'll need to attach them elsewhere.

I also have three original Honda condensers, including the possibly faulty one, other two currently (?) attached to spare engines. Connector missing from this one.

And finally, I've dug out the Vellerman electronic ignition kit that I assembled last year. It replaces the condenser, retains the contact breaker, supposed to eliminate points wear and provide a stronger spark. I've yet to fit this to a bike, having gone for Charlies ignition instead, but I will give it a try on this engine. Contains a 0.22uf 630vdc capacitor.

http://www.velleman.co.uk/manuals/k2543.pdf

 

[Richard_Pitman]

I fitted a new set of points today, had to change the points back plate to match, later points same as CB200.

Sparking has more or loss gone now, but I will go ahead and change the condenser. Really need to remove the fuel tank for decent access.

EDIT Just to illustrate the two different points sets and mounting plates. I have replaced those butchered screws !

Larger diameter pivot point on later points