Honda Twins banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have recently finished rebuilding my '75 CB360 and have started taking it out on test rides. Was out on the streets nearby yesterday and stopped to adjust something. While I was doing so, the engine died, despite being in neutral. When I attempted to restart, the bike jerked forward like it was in gear and would only start without moving if I held the clutch in. I got the bike back mostly without incident, but then determined I couldn't move the bike (i.e., the rear wheel wouldn't move) unless I held the clutch lever in while walking it back into the garage. Now I've got the bike up on the center stand and observed a few things:
  1. Although the engine reports that it's in neutral (the neutral light is on, I can feel it click from first to neutral with the shift pedal), I can only move the rear wheel if I hold the clutch lever in and even then it drags a bit (it won't spin around more than once before stopping). In addition, I can only actually rotate it if I rotate the wheel back a bit first and then spin it forward.
  2. If I shift the bike into first, the rear wheel will not move, even with the clutch lever pulled in.
  3. The rear wheel rotates if I use the kick start or the electric start.
I went through the process of adjusting the clutch but that did not fix the issue. I have the feeling I'm going to have to pull open the right side of the case and look at the clutch basket, but I figured I'd check to see if anyone on the forums had any ideas before I did so. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Have recently finished rebuilding my '75 CB360 and have started taking it out on test rides. Was out on the streets nearby yesterday and stopped to adjust something. While I was doing so, the engine died, despite being in neutral. When I attempted to restart, the bike jerked forward like it was in gear and would only start without moving if I held the clutch in. I got the bike back mostly without incident, but then determined I couldn't move the bike (i.e., the rear wheel wouldn't move) unless I held the clutch lever in while walking it back into the garage. Now I've got the bike up on the center stand and observed a few things:
  1. Although the engine reports that it's in neutral (the neutral light is on, I can feel it click from first to neutral with the shift pedal), I can only move the rear wheel if I hold the clutch lever in and even then it drags a bit (it won't spin around more than once before stopping). In addition, I can only actually rotate it if I rotate the wheel back a bit first and then spin it forward.
  2. If I shift the bike into first, the rear wheel will not move, even with the clutch lever pulled in.
  3. The rear wheel rotates if I use the kick start or the electric start.
I went through the process of adjusting the clutch but that did not fix the issue. I have the feeling I'm going to have to pull open the right side of the case and look at the clutch basket, but I figured I'd check to see if anyone on the forums had any ideas before I did so. Thanks in advance for your help.
Remember these are wet clutches and they will have some drag even when disengaged in gear. This sounds to me like it isn't really in neutral. Possible your neutral switch contact has slipped causing it to read neutral when it isn't. I'd forget the neutral light for now and use your hand to find neutral with the shifter, then see how things are
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That makes sense, although I can definitely feel it click into first, neutral, and second using the shifter. I will give it another shot before I crack open the clutch basket for a look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Update: it was a broken tooth on one of the transmission gears. I noticed that the shift drum stopper arm was loose, which I'm hoping was the cause. That said, even with the arm tightened down (and the broken gears replaced), I noticed that the star gear doesn't full shift over to the next position. Is this because the engine isn't spinning, or is it a symptom of another problem?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Update: it was a broken tooth on one of the transmission gears. I noticed that the shift drum stopper arm was loose, which I'm hoping was the cause. That said, even with the arm tightened down (and the broken gears replaced), I noticed that the star gear doesn't full shift over to the next position. Is this because the engine isn't spinning, or is it a symptom of another problem?
All bike transmissions have to be moving for them to shift between the different gears. If the engine is in the frame and the chain is connected, rotate the rear wheel with it on the centerstand while trying to shift it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry, to be clear: I was rotating the engine by hand when testing the shifting and I am still not seeing the stopper arm move fully into the spaces between the points of the star when shift to first or to second.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Sorry, to be clear: I was rotating the engine by hand when testing the shifting and I am still not seeing the stopper arm move fully into the spaces between the points of the star when shift to first or to second.
So is the engine out of the frame? If so, then you have to move the front sprocket if the clutch side is assembled. If the clutch is apart, then you have to move the mainshaft and sometimes the countershaft (where the front sprocket is) to ensure the dogs will align on the gears in order to move from one gear to another. If none of that works, it begs the question - did you have the bottom end apart? If so, it's possible something isn't assembled correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The engine is out of the frame, with the front sprocket and the clutch basket off. I just had the bottom end off - that's how I found the transmission gear had broken - but both shafts spin without problem after having put the bottom end back together. Since you mention that counter shaft likely needs to be spun as well in order for the engine to shift properly, it's possible that this is what I'm missing when I try test shifting by hand to see where the head of stopper arm ends up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
The engine is out of the frame, with the front sprocket and the clutch basket off. I just had the bottom end off - that's how I found the transmission gear had broken - but both shafts spin without problem after having put the bottom end back together. Since you mention that counter shaft likely needs to be spun as well in order for the engine to shift properly, it's possible that this is what I'm missing when I try test shifting by hand to see where the head of stopper arm ends up.
Due to the design of the transmission, rotating only one shaft doesn't always allow the dogs on the gears to align. If you hold the front sprocket still with something (lay the drive chain around it, bungee cord, whatever) and rotate the mainshaft while trying to shift it you'll probably get the results you want
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, I eventually figured out that the issue with the stopper arm was that the stopper collar arm collar was deformed on top, which was preventing the arm from rotating properly. Replaced that with a working part and shifting works again when the stopper arm retaining bolt is torqued down properly.

HOWEVER...the initial problem is still there and in some ways worse: if I have the engine mounted in the frame, the wheel hooked up to the front sprocket via the drive chain, no plates in the clutch basket and the bike in neutral (as confirmed by both the neutral light and looking at the position of the drum stopper cam plate), everything (the rear wheel, the clutch outer, the primary drive gear) rotates freely. If I put all of the plates in but don't put in the clutch springs and their retaining bolts, I get some drag, but spinning does not require any effort. BUT...if I put in the clutch springs and tighten - let alone torque down - the retaining bolts, I can't rotate the rear more than about half an inch before I hit strong resistance.

Some additional information:
  • I encounter the same result whether or not the clutch cover is on the side of the bike.
  • Even though I can't spin the rear wheel after tightening down the clutch bolts, I can still rotate the engine (using the bolt in the center of the alternator) through multiple cycles without problem.
  • If I hold the clutch in, I can rotate the rear wheel. Again, it drags, but about as much as I would expect (meaning I can get maybe 3/4 of a turn by spinning it before it loses momentum). Naturally, when I do so, the clutch outer and the primary drive gear rotate, but the rest of the engine does not.
  • As a test, I tightened the clutch much more than I would normally to see if that had any effect, but it did not.
I'm about at the point where I'm going to take the engine off the frame and crack the cases again to see if maybe something about the transmission is not set up properly, but figured I'd check here first to see anyone has any ideas. After watching Common Motor's video about rebuilding clutches, I will take another look at the steel clutch plates to see if they need to be sanded down before I put them back in. I can't imagine that any residue on the steel plates would cause the clutch to completely lock up, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,263 Posts
Did you check for a bent shaft, when replacing the broken gear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Another update: I cracked the cases again tonight. With the bottom case off, the transmission in neutral, and the main and countershafts in place, it's pretty clear that everything (the inner gears on the main and countershafts, the clutch center) spin without problem without clutch plates in the basket. As soon as I add plates and screw in the bolts to the point where the washers touch the springs...dead lock.

Separately, I looked at the steel clutch plates: they do not need to be cleaned.

The only other idea I have right now is that the friction plates haven't been oiled in a long time - maybe they're too dry? They certainly feel pretty greasy, but maybe they need to be soaked in oil overnight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
In case anyone else comes across this thread: I had managed to bash in some of the pins in the top crankcase at some point in the past. Not 100% sure if that's the cause yet - I'm still remounting the engine - but it spins without problem in neutral (including after being hooked up to a rear wheel) and shifts in and out of first just fine.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top