[suejenn]

1965 Honda 305 Dream........With left cover off and complete shift mechanism in view, the end of the shift drum is covered with rust. When I look through a small opening into the engine, I can see heavy rust on the drum, inside the case.

Anything I can do short of tearing the engine down? The bike is beautiful, looks nearly new. I've never torn one down but imagine I could with some guidance.

Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank, Tom

 

[DD23]

Thought that may be the case when you informed of the rotten oil pump filter.....

Can you not aim penetrant at the selector forks and drum, say 4 times per day for 4 days, time for penetrant to do it's thing. GENTLE encouragement along with the penetrant may be enough, if your lucky. Don't hold your breath though.

You could assemble engine, add engine oil oil, some 2t oil in the fuel, and using an electric fan for cooling, run the engine for a time. Several heat cycles and a hot oily environment may, may help in freeing off the stuck selector forks on the selector drum.....

Someone did say some time ago a strip down would be best.

Check out parts availability like the alloy hex head valve covers, piston rings and full gasket set etc..

It may be possible, with engine removed, and upsidedown, to just remove the lower crank case casting, leaving head, cylinders, pistons and crank undisturbed in place, giving access to gears, selector forks and selector drum etc.., but a deeper strip down may be necessary/advisable.

Do your checks for parts first and try several penetrant goes, engine runs/heat cycles...

Feedback and some pictures...

Dd23

 

[suejenn]

Thought that may be the case when you informed of the rotten oil pump filter.....

Can you not aim penetrant at the selector forks and drum, say 4 times per day for 4 days, time for penetrant to do it's thing. GENTLE encouragement along with the penetrant may be enough, if your lucky. Don't hold your breath though.

You could assemble engine, add engine oil oil, some 2t oil in the fuel, and using an electric fan for cooling, run the engine for a time. Several heat cycles and a hot oily environment may, may help in freeing off the stuck selector forks on the selector drum.....

Someone did say some time ago a strip down would be best.

Check out parts availability like the alloy hex head valve covers, piston rings and full gasket set etc..

It may be possible, with engine removed, and upsidedown, to just remove the lower crank case casting, leaving head, cylinders, pistons and crank undisturbed in place, giving access to gears, selector forks and selector drum etc.., but a deeper strip down may be necessary/advisable.

Do your checks for parts first and try several penetrant goes, engine runs/heat cycles...

Feedback and some pictures...

Dd23

Thanks for the ideas. I'll go with several days of rust dissolving penetrating oil first with slight coaxing first. If that doesn't work, I may have to go with your other suggestion of removing the lower part of the engine to get at the drum. Thanks again, Tom

 

[DD23]

Hi Tom,

You should see the penetrant "enter", creep into the gaps between the selector forks where they sit over the selector drum.

As you know there are two selector forks. I would remove everything under the clutch involved with the selector "escapement" to allow easyier access to the insides whilst exposing a hex head to "excersice" , very gently turn, the selector drum, backwards and forwards.

Even slight and I mean slight movement, is a beginning.

See the CMSNL views.

Two selector forks stuck/corroded to the selector drum. Notice the retaining bolts/pins that have rollers.

When excersizing the drum, rotate the gearbox input shaft that the clutch rides on, clockwise and anticlockwise slightly to allow the gear dogs to align.

So, selector drum, selector forks and gears on Thier shafts all have to move.

The selector drum rotates within the selector forks. The selector forks also slide on the selector drum. The gears slide on Thier shafts. The dogs on either gear slots into the "space".

Dogs, like a castle tower "castilation".....

The trick is, once very slight movement is seen, repenetrant, allow to creep in, slight more gentle excersizing, slightly more movement, repeat. Be very gentle.

There is a lot to free off all at the same time, no real force, a bit at a time, which may take hours.

It might help for some hot air( not naked flame ) to be directed at the selector forks where the forks fit over the selector drum, to make them expand a bit. The trouble with that is the selector drum will want to expand a bit as well when that warms up.

Remove the neutral switch as someone has suggested, to remove it from the equation.

This is going to be a long winded process so be patient, very gentle and very carefull. No real force, just encouragement.

Can you get an aerosol can called "freeze your nuts off' , sounds painfully but this stuff does exist.
It will chill down stuff it's sprayed onto, BUT is flammable.

The hot air heating, expansion, and the chilling down, contraction, thermal shock, can encourage the stuck stuff to become freed off.

Don't go overdoing it, very very gentle encouragement is the way .

I would really consider reassembly, add oil, a cooling fan, and let several engine runs and cool down periods "have a go", heat and cooling cycles. This would be the first thing to try I feel. Just don't let the engine overheat !!!

Maybe two electric cooling fans...

Do not force anything involved with gear selection.

Can you post a picture ?

 

[suejenn]

Hi Tom,

You should see the penetrant "enter", creep into the gaps between the selector forks where they sit over the selector drum.

As you know there are two selector forks. I would remove everything under the clutch involved with the selector "escapement" to allow easyier access to the insides whilst exposing a hex head to "excersice" , very gently turn, the selector drum, backwards and forwards.

Even slight and I mean slight movement, is a beginning.

See the CMSNL views.

Two selector forks stuck/corroded to the selector drum. Notice the retaining bolts/pins that have rollers.

When excersizing the drum, rotate the gearbox input shaft that the clutch rides on, clockwise and anticlockwise slightly to allow the gear dogs to align.

So, selector drum, selector forks and gears on Thier shafts all have to move.

The selector drum rotates within the selector forks. The selector forks also slide on the selector drum. The gears slide on Thier shafts. The dogs on either gear slots into the "space".

Dogs, like a castle tower "castilation".....

The trick is, once very slight movement is seen, repenetrant, allow to creep in, slight more gentle excersizing, slightly more movement, repeat. Be very gentle.

There is a lot to free off all at the same time, no real force, a bit at a time, which may take hours.

It might help for some hot air( not naked flame ) to be directed at the selector forks where the forks fit over the selector drum, to make them expand a bit. The trouble with that is the selector drum will want to expand a bit as well when that warms up.

Remove the neutral switch as someone has suggested, to remove it from the equation.

This is going to be a long winded process so be patient, very gentle and very carefull. No real force, just encouragement.

Can you get an aerosol can called "freeze your nuts off' , sounds painfully but this stuff does exist.
It will chill down stuff it's sprayed onto, BUT is flammable.

The hot air heating, expansion, and the chilling down, contraction, thermal shock, can encourage the stuck stuff to become freed off.

Don't go overdoing it, very very gentle encouragement is the way .

I would really consider reassembly, add oil, a cooling fan, and let several engine runs and cool down periods "have a go", heat and cooling cycles. This would be the first thing to try I feel. Just don't let the engine overheat !!!

Maybe two electric cooling fans...

Do not force anything involved with gear selection.

Can you post a picture ?

Can't for the life of me figure out how to post a picture from my phone, sorry. I will continue with penetrating oil and gentle persuasion. The rust on the drum, that I can see through a little hole in engine, looks awful though.

 

[DD23]

Very very gentle encouragement/excresize, bit by bit, little by little, very gently as you

 

[DD23]

Take pictures with phone. Picture automatically goes to file on mine.

Select "paper clip" on the RHS of tool box just below text box, phone goes to file automatically, select picture, wait, picture loads below tool box, wait, select full image, wait, picture opens in text box. This works like that on my cheapo internet phone....

 

[suejenn]

Thanks for the tip. I have a newer phone that I'm not quite familiar with.

 

[DD23]

I can never take clear pictures with my phone either...

A lot of corrosion there...if insides are as bad, it's engine out time, but not just yet.

Anyway tomorrow is a new day.

Back tomorrow...

 

[DD23]

I can never take clear pictures with my phone either...

A lot of corrosion there...if insides are as bad, it's engine out time, but not just yet.

Anyway tomorrow is a new day.

Back tomorrow...

 

[suejenn]

I can never take clear pictures with my phone either...

A lot of corrosion there...if insides are as bad, it's engine out time, but not just yet.

Anyway tomorrow is a new day.

Back tomorrow...

 

[suejenn]

Looks like it's time to give up on coaxing the shift drum and pull the motor. I have everything removed from the left case already and am not sure what to do inside the right cover. I'll start removing exhaust, guards, etc.

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, Tom

 

[DD23]

Look at CMSNL.com exploded views

A picture of clutch side to see what you have removed...

The half circle washer held on by two screws holds the selected drum in place. Slacken the screws but don't remove them or the half circle washer yet.

Over

Dd23

 

[suejenn]

Look at CMSNL.com exploded views

A picture of clutch side to see what you have removed...

The half circle washer held on by two screws holds the selected drum in place. Slacken the screws but don't remove them or the half circle washer yet.

Over

Dd23

Thanks for responding. I got the left screw loose yesterday and am still trying to get the right one loose. I've been using penetrating oil and a hand held impact wrench but it is being stubborn. Thanks again.

 

[DD23]

A picture to show what has been removed from the clutch side of the whole engine.

By left and right screw you mean the front screw and rear screw involved with holding that half circular plate involved with the selector drum ?

Pictures pictures pictures...

Over...

Dd23

 

[DD23]

PUT THAT IMPACT DRIVER AWAY, do it NOW !!!!!!!!!

It is so so easy to break stuff using an impact driver, you have been WARNED !

Picture to show what has been removed from the whole of the clutch side of the engine please.

Pictures pictures pictures

Over...

Dd23

 

[suejenn]

PUT THAT IMPACT DRIVER AWAY, do it NOW !!!!!!!!!

It is so so easy to break stuff using an impact driver, you have been WARNED !

Picture to show what has been removed from the whole of the clutch side of the engine please.

Pictures pictures pictures

Over...

Dd23

10-4 I posted a picture a few post ago. If you'll scroll up maybe you'll see it.

 

[DD23]

Not in this post....hand held and hit or hand held, push, impact ?

What does the screw screw into and ask yourself how strong is that. Jis head now chewed ?

Picture

Your helping others

 

[suejenn]

The screw is the rt one on the stay that holds the horseshoe shaped shift rod in place. I had hoped, if I could get them both loose, that I could coax the shift rod into moving a hair. We'll see.

 

[DD23]

Hi Tom,

Please will you post pictures of the whole engine clutch side as it is at the moment please.

This would be very informative.

Also a clear picture of the 2 screws that hold the half circle plate involved with the selector drum, so good advice can be offered.

Remember we can only use the information you tell us and show us.

We cannot see what you see unless you inform us.

A picture equals 1000 words.

Dd23