Well, got all the case screws out without breaking any, thank goodness. I was dreading that possibility. Now, I'm finding that getting the cover off is going to be a real challenge. I know it budged because a tiny bit of oil seeped out the the bottom. I've tapped it with a dead blow hammer (cloth covering the case of course). Any idea if it has alignment pins guiding the cover onto the engine? Tomorrow, I'll have at it again.
305 dream 1965 won't go in gear
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Joined
·
506 Posts
A lot or people don't understand clutch terminology. For those wondering, when you pull IN the clutch lever you are DIS-ENGAGING the clutch. When you release the lever, the clutch is ENGAGED. With that said many Honda clutches will stick in the engaged position when the bike sits for 20 years or even sometimes 1 year. Since your bike is able to run, according to your original post, while it is IDLING pull in the clutch lever and push the shift lever down. MAKE SURE YOU ARE POINTED INTO A OPEN AREA. If the bike tries to jump and die, the clutch plates are seized together. If it doesn't move let out the clutch slowly and if it still doesn't move, the clutch is misadjusted (too tight) you need more free play in the cable.
Check for dowels on CMSNL...
A dead blow hammer ( and protection ) may be enough to crack the casing.
Find dowel positions and tap in those areas using wood and a small hammer.
Any movement, even slight ?
Tap casing back on and repeat.
DO NOT tap in a screwdriver or chiesel or anything else for that matter between casings.
The gasket will tear and release its grip.
You may have to gently walk the casing off bit by bit, but any movement is good. Tap the cover back on and retry.
Bike on centre stand with engine hot. Start engine, rotate back wheel in correct direction as fast as you can, clutch lever pulled in to handle bar ( clutch disengage position ) and drop into gear.
Blip throttle to introduce transmission snatch...clutch will eventually free.
A higher gear would help.
Just make sure the bike cannot roll off the centre stand. If it does the bike will shoot off either into your swimming pool or through the nearest huge plate glass wind.
Hot oil and transmission snatch is by far the most gentlest method of freeing a stuck clutch of this type.
Much much much less chance of needing a dentist.
Just take your time.
I hope your Gunna flush out the engine internally and examine the oil pumps filter screen...
Hot oil and saucepan method works on all sorts of stuff like non o ring type chain servicing, stuck piston rings in removed piston, Cox cylinders, merco bearings, etc etc. Etc., At least for me.
Never had a burn or fire yet, hot oil or petrol, but I know the dangers.
However SodS law says....if it can happen, one day it will.
I am extremely carefull.
Loop copper wire through that large hole in the stuck clutch plates, like a lace, to allow easy hot clutch plate removal from the hot oil. You can always leave it a while with the saucepan lid on for a while to cool down all by its lonesome....
Only heat oil until the first hint of smoke, then turn heat off.
Obviously heat the oil outside with no rain/snow in the weather forecast !
No pets, kids, or any d+£#@55£5 anywhere near that hot oil.
Safety first...
Dd23🤓
A dead blow hammer ( and protection ) may be enough to crack the casing.
Find dowel positions and tap in those areas using wood and a small hammer.
Any movement, even slight ?
Tap casing back on and repeat.
DO NOT tap in a screwdriver or chiesel or anything else for that matter between casings.
The gasket will tear and release its grip.
You may have to gently walk the casing off bit by bit, but any movement is good. Tap the cover back on and retry.
Bike on centre stand with engine hot. Start engine, rotate back wheel in correct direction as fast as you can, clutch lever pulled in to handle bar ( clutch disengage position ) and drop into gear.
Blip throttle to introduce transmission snatch...clutch will eventually free.
A higher gear would help.
Just make sure the bike cannot roll off the centre stand. If it does the bike will shoot off either into your swimming pool or through the nearest huge plate glass wind.
Hot oil and transmission snatch is by far the most gentlest method of freeing a stuck clutch of this type.
Much much much less chance of needing a dentist.
Just take your time.
I hope your Gunna flush out the engine internally and examine the oil pumps filter screen...
Hot oil and saucepan method works on all sorts of stuff like non o ring type chain servicing, stuck piston rings in removed piston, Cox cylinders, merco bearings, etc etc. Etc., At least for me.
Never had a burn or fire yet, hot oil or petrol, but I know the dangers.
However SodS law says....if it can happen, one day it will.
I am extremely carefull.
Loop copper wire through that large hole in the stuck clutch plates, like a lace, to allow easy hot clutch plate removal from the hot oil. You can always leave it a while with the saucepan lid on for a while to cool down all by its lonesome....
Only heat oil until the first hint of smoke, then turn heat off.
Obviously heat the oil outside with no rain/snow in the weather forecast !
No pets, kids, or any d+£#@55£5 anywhere near that hot oil.
Safety first...
Dd23🤓
6 - clutch outer remains.
10 - clutch center remains.
18 - ciriclip remains on.
22-19-12 are removed (all 4)
11 - pressure palate is removed.
7-9-13 are removed, washed with gas or brake clean.
13 - is first to install with cut side facing 11's plate.
9's are installed with the cut side facing 11's plate.
7's may show a more flat outer edge like the steels, so face those toward 9's plate as you reinstall.
Install clutch plates dry so it does not stick. Eventually it will be lubed while riding. Might have a lube holes at the shaft to centrifugally feed the plates.
Just dry the gasket off with a paper towel, same to the engine case and bolt it back up without any sealer. 10k on the parts is nothing. All can be reused.
10 - clutch center remains.
18 - ciriclip remains on.
22-19-12 are removed (all 4)
11 - pressure palate is removed.
7-9-13 are removed, washed with gas or brake clean.
13 - is first to install with cut side facing 11's plate.
9's are installed with the cut side facing 11's plate.
7's may show a more flat outer edge like the steels, so face those toward 9's plate as you reinstall.
Install clutch plates dry so it does not stick. Eventually it will be lubed while riding. Might have a lube holes at the shaft to centrifugally feed the plates.
Just dry the gasket off with a paper towel, same to the engine case and bolt it back up without any sealer. 10k on the parts is nothing. All can be reused.
Joined
·
506 Posts
This is not good advice. Wet clutch friction plates should be soaked in oil prior to installation to prevent burning the friction material at start up. Oil is a coolant for the clutch.
So a ducati dry clutch is how dry thru its life? It's the same friction material. And the swapping of the plates to disturb the finish on both plates sides begins a new bite that can release. Where you can pull the clutch in and 11 pressure plate should spin freely by hand.
And I did say the plates would be lubed eventually. Your bike, your choice.
And I did say the plates would be lubed eventually. Your bike, your choice.
Update as promised.
The case does have two alignment pins, one on the right and one on the left (screws go through them). I tapped, tapped, and tapped some more, on the case and it would not budge. I guess, being on for 57 years, it didn't want to give up. I finally resorted (cringe) to using a 3/4 inch wood chisel. I slowly, and gently, worked my way around the upper part of the case and after about 45 minutes I saw it had opened slightly. I worked with it and it finally opened and I was able to get it off. The videos on U-Tube helped considerably, although one showed not putting the thin wires that hold the first steel plate and then the first friction plate. I found out that the wires keep the clutch parts from rattling and I elected to put them back in place. It wasn't all that difficult. The clutch plates, both metal and friction, were incrusted with gunk, for lack of a better word. I soaked them in gasoline over night which did not seem to help much. I resorted to lightly sanding them with 220 paper dipped in gasoline. That worked and, once clean, I applied oil to both metal and friction plates and reinstalled them.
All in all, it wasn't that difficult. This was my first clutch work and like most jobs, getting started is usually the hard part.
I want to thank everyone on the forum for their help. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. Thanks again.
The case does have two alignment pins, one on the right and one on the left (screws go through them). I tapped, tapped, and tapped some more, on the case and it would not budge. I guess, being on for 57 years, it didn't want to give up. I finally resorted (cringe) to using a 3/4 inch wood chisel. I slowly, and gently, worked my way around the upper part of the case and after about 45 minutes I saw it had opened slightly. I worked with it and it finally opened and I was able to get it off. The videos on U-Tube helped considerably, although one showed not putting the thin wires that hold the first steel plate and then the first friction plate. I found out that the wires keep the clutch parts from rattling and I elected to put them back in place. It wasn't all that difficult. The clutch plates, both metal and friction, were incrusted with gunk, for lack of a better word. I soaked them in gasoline over night which did not seem to help much. I resorted to lightly sanding them with 220 paper dipped in gasoline. That worked and, once clean, I applied oil to both metal and friction plates and reinstalled them.
All in all, it wasn't that difficult. This was my first clutch work and like most jobs, getting started is usually the hard part.
I want to thank everyone on the forum for their help. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them. Thanks again.
Thanks for the oil pump screen mention. I had not thought about that at all. I will order the gaskets and do that as well. Good idea, thanks again.
CMSNL ??? I have no idea what that is and I have no idea how to post pictures. Several of the plates were stuck together but cleaned up nicely. I cleaned the entire area under the cover. It wasn't too bad and I cleaned the oil tunnels in the cover as well. Thanks
thank you
Continuation of the story: Bike still won't go in gear.
I pulled the clutch out and cleaned it thoroughly as well as the oil slinger. Clutch seems to actuate like it should. While I was at it I removed the oil pump and cleaned the screen and added fresh oil. Bike starts fine but still won't go in gear.
Any fresh ideas would be greatly appreciated. It's so disappointing to have such a beautiful bike that goes nowhere. Thanks for any help.
Joined
·
506 Posts
You're gonna have to take the clutch cover off again and check to see if the shift drum turns when you press down or up on the shift lever. If what you've found so far is correct, the problem lies in the gear change drum, linkage or transmission gears.
Thanks for responding, What could be wrong with that part, since it was working fine before I parked it? I'm not familiar with that part and wouldn't know what to look for. Thanks again.
Joined
·
506 Posts
Here's a picture that may help. The star shaped piece in the upper part of the photo is attached to shift drum. It has an arm that ratchets back and forth to change gears. Sometimes the phillips screw holding the star wheel on comes loose and lets the arm come off track, causing you to be unable to put the bike in gear. Attached is the link to the post I got the picture from, it also has a video of it shifting. Also don't forget to FIRST confirm the drive chain has not come apart and is lying bunched up in the chain cover. If none of this makes sense to you I'm sorry, but you need to take it to an experienced mechanic.
www.hondatwins.net
Shifting problem - 1st Gear & Neutral but nothing else.
My son & finished his complete restoration and is was pretty complete. I've got a post in the project logs that was almost compete when we ran into a probelm. A couple of rides past the shake down and it came home ok but after we parked it - it won't go past Neutral. Now we did have an issue on...
www.hondatwins.net
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
