[AnalogLiz]

Got this bike in October from a PO who bought it and let it sit for about 7 years. Changed out battery and spark plugs, and replaced fuses; removed carbs and cleaned all jets, etc, (and replaced gaskets and diaphragms); replaced throttle cables (push cable was broken). I have power and spark and she runs! With thanks to some folks here in this forum who guided me in peeking under the cam cover to make sure things wouldn’t get ruined if I turned it over. I still have some fuel delivery issues (I know, that’s a different topic category)- I think the tank is pretty gunked up even after a clean out, so I’ve had to flush out the inline fuel filter. But I can get her to run, “hands free” though sometimes need to adjust the choke to keep it running. I have no front brake right now, so I’m not going anywhere yet.

And here’s my question: with the bike running, I pulled in the clutch and tapped it into first gear, and it lurched and stalled. So now I’m looking into the clutch - got the Right crankcase cover off and took off the lifter plate and springs, and it feels a bit like all the plates are stuck together. I can separate them with my fingers with a little effort, but should they be more freely and easily moveable individually?
im thinking they could use a little looking after, and a good soak, and if so, I have that locknut to contend with, but I won’t bother if you tell me the clutch plates seem fine.
thanks in advance for looking!
can’t seem to attach video here so

I posted a video to YouTube showing the clutch plates:

 

[AnalogLiz]

DD23, thank you!
I will make my own tool for that dastardly nut- the right size just isn’t out there, at least not where I’ve been looking. (Maybe I found one for $55 USD but that’s no fun)
I wonder: does the flywheel cover on left side of bike move with the clutch - if so, I could have someone hold that while I use my new socket, once I make it. Guess I’ll need a friend (or a mirror) to answer that. I have some grinding to do before I get there

great tip about the multimeter while she’s running. Will do that.

 

[AnalogLiz]

My new tool worked (!) and I’m measuring friction plates to compare with manual specs. Have I taken photos of what you want to see? The inside of the basket has tons of crud but seems smooth.
And off to find the balance dot you’ve been gently nudging me about all along 🤓

 

[AnalogLiz]

Back of the basket has rust.

 

[AnalogLiz]

The balance dot: if I understand correctly from my reading: looking at it upside down, the front of the bike would be 9pm on a clock. My dot is at about 8pm. This is good, right?
picture below of view taken right side up.

 

[AnalogLiz]

Okay I was mislead by something in the clymer guide (about reading upside down): my Photos are taken right-side-up. I did have to adjust the spline engagement on the stopper plate so there’d be a little room to play with. Balance dot is center top when looking right side up, about 12 o’clock. “Before” photo:

 

[AnalogLiz]

After photo:

 

[AnalogLiz]

Oh yeah, and to answer your question about the hub turning: I noticed the back wheel trying to spin (bike has cloth and tarp beneath) so I stepped on the foot brake pedal while I unlocked the notched nut. I hope “what worked” Is also correct?

 

[AnalogLiz]

What would you recommend for flushing sump floor?

 

[AnalogLiz]

Ps, Overall and eye GOGGLES !

Ear goggles are good when grinding, loud noises etc...

Perhaps a full face mask as well...

What did you say, too many Jimmy hendrix concerts at volume 130 dB.......😀

Even knee pads or cushion.

Use personal safety equipment from now on, else you will still not be using it much later in life ! It'll be way toooo late then.

will this do?!
HA HA HA - this is from some home reno projects. I am NOT using that pry bar on my Honda. Just for a laugh

 

[AnalogLiz]

Lol, yes but no gloves or steel toe cap boots, but you get the idea.

Didn't get chance to take pictures today, plumbing job half way thru...

Will take pictures tomorrow thou.

Any pictures of the sump floor and labarynth, you should be able to see sump floor thru those gaps...

You fancy making your own gasket for clutch cover and flywheel cover ?

Over...

Dd23

Hi Al,
We have hot water again, which means I can have a nice hot bath, hurrah !

View attachment 320937
Notice banana box, free from supermarkets with some even giving points if you take them away, economics of the mad house.

They are strong, take a lot of stuff, stack and are recyclable. They have a large poly bag which is usefull and a sheet of relatively thick card at the bottom suitable for making clutch and flywheel gaskets

Red red squirty oil can is usefull, even use it to "pump" oil through carb passageways to help clear them of crud etc..

The brake cleaner aerosol gives a good jet of fluid but is expensive and flammable. It's a good cleaner evaporating quickly. I also have a gallon of the stuff to put in a pump up pressurised sprayer, much more economical at about £17 a gallon.

The squirty washing up liquid bottle, when empty and clean makes a good squirty jet.

The Lance will blow compressed air, and a liquid spray. The compressor has an adjustable air supply to the Lance, and the liquid pick up has and adjustable valve.

Low air pressure gives a slow low pressure air/liquid jet which stops sump crap "splatter" inside the engine when cleaning/flushing.

At high pressure it will spray a fine atomised spray. Water and detergent is not a problem, but a finely atomised flammable spray is,bits dangerous not needing a naked flame to set it on fire, just enough temperature, you have been warned !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The pump action spray dispenser never seem to last, they always seem to leak meaning waste of the expensive penetrant/lub liquid.

Household cleaning products have similar pump action sprayer, even a large syringe is usefull for sump crap flushing. I even have a stainless steel cake icing syringe which is good. I saw it in a charity shop at 50 pence, real cheap and a good workshop tool.

There will be other things you can use for flushing out the sump crap.

I have 3 battery hydrometers. One just for batteries, one minus it's float for brake fluid jobs like flushing dirty master cylinder fluid, brake fluid use only, and one for use with fuel, filling carb float bowls for brief engine runs.

I have not shown the other blasters I have like a Lance with a screw on liquid reservoir, and the dry/wet sand blaster etc..

Hope you and others find this little ditty usefull.

If you are thinking about making your own clutch/flywheel gaskets, see if you can get some sheets of the banana box card, which is great, and free.

All you need to make the gasket is the clean clutch cover minus the dowels, a pen, scissors and a 6mm woodworking drill, the type with the spike ( unlike an auger with a tapered screw end ). A flat piece of suitable wood/ply big enough to sit the cover on which the wood drill will penetrate through.

DO NOT do it on your grand piano lid or mouse man table top !

Use the drill by hand. I use a chuck and shaft from a scrap burnt out electric drill.

When holes drilled, and outline drawn with inside trimmed to width, I glue the home made gasket to the flywheel/clutch cover. I grease the gasket lightly then fit cover . They will survive a taking off and putting on at least once.

When gasket glued on I trim the dowel holes with a craft knife.

Try making a gasket. Your first one will be crap, second will be better with the third one perfect.

Use the covers screws/bolts to keep gasket in place when gluing, just don't glue the bolts in. I use a slowish superglue, just keep that well away from your eyes !!!!!

If you glue your fingers to the cover, or each other, don't pull apart !!!!! A twisting action is the way to free your self/fingers.

I use it a lot even in aeromodelling.
You can get hand powered fuel pumps to pump fuel from container to the aircraft's fuel tank.
It gives a good controllable "jet" of liquid but are a little expensive.

Reuse, repurpose, recycle.

Bath beckons....

Dd23

Hooray for hot water! Thanks for photo of useful tools and repurposed items. I ordered a gasket for the clutch cover already, but may venture into homemade as a skills-building experiment and for future use

Say, when I drained the oil before opening clutch cover, not nearly the 2.6 quarts i put in two weeks earlier came flowing out. Is this normal? (One of the first things when starting work on the bike was to drain old oil. Then I replaced the oil filter and put new oil in before I ever turned over engine (which was weeks and weeks later). Then that oil got drained once I decided to pursue the cleaning of the clutch.) Also: I'm thinking that much of the sump is out of view, so all the gunk that poured out of bottom of case isn't all there is. Is that true? Is there a pool of oil somewhere that I need to access and flush?)

Thanks again for all the help

 

[AnalogLiz]

Reassembled clutch (all plates and friction plates met spec, yay), fitted new crankcase cover gasket, replaced crankcase cover. Alas, clutch lever at the handlebar does not spring back … have adjusted cable at both ends, but it seems like the clutch lever at the crankcase/clutch lifter is not providing the tension. I checked shop manual and rotated the lever 120degrees (Clymer manual makes no mention of this!) but it just doesn’t have the tension to bounce back. Whaddya think? new spring/circlip needed? (I know cables can get overstretched over time, but I’m really just not Feeling the tension at the crankcase lever. Harrumph.

 

[AnalogLiz]

Is it possible that I overtightened the lifter plate? (Maybe the clutch stack is too compressed?)

 

[AnalogLiz]

Okay i must have over-torqued the 4 bolts against the lifter plate with springs underneath. I used a much higher torque value so obviously misread a table. One of those 4 bolt heads snapped off when I went to loosen them, so a) i hope i didn't screw up the pressure plate threads and b) I am now waiting for replacement bolts.

The mushroom piece you are referring to does "move out" when the lever is operated. (so if the crankcase cover were installed,"moving out" would be pressing into the lifter plate. I am now thinking that the over-torqued bolts compressed the springs too much, so they can't reach to push that "mushroom" back out (and thus recoil the lever on the crankcase).

Also: no, I did not remove the clutch lever and spring from the crankcase at all.

I'll update when I get those replacement bolts. (Or maybe I'll try easing those springs a bit even before I get the fourth bolt...I can still refit the crankcase with just a few bolts to see if there's contact between the mushroom and lifter plate.
May the moto gods be with me!

 

[AnalogLiz]

Aside from the bolt I now have to replace, here are two videos showing what I’m troubled by. The first shows how the clutch lever at the crankcase snaps back before I hook up the cable, but with the cable attached it does not.

Clutch lever returns under tension

youtube.com

February 2, 2023

youtube.com

 

[AnalogLiz]

Oh, and hahahahahaha!! Just saw your photos above of cool tool and die sets! Laughing that you plan to take one set with you

 

[AnalogLiz]

Thank you, your description is perfect.

once the lifter plate and springs have been fitted and bolted, should I expect the plate stack to wiggle at all?

the video I posted above (that I guess you can’t see) is my dry run reassembly (literally dry - no oil, and only 3 bolts holding the case on) that shows the clutch lever at the case moving clockwise nicely and snapping back with the spring pressure.
I did the dry run because I still had a bolt stranded in the pressure plate “tower” and only three bolts holding the lifter plate down. But it seems like I got the reassembly right at least that once.
But now: I have replacement pressure plate and bolts (cheap eBay buy; my bolt extraction attempts were not successful. I’ll continue to hone that skill later, with peace of mind that I’m not wrecking a crucial bike part)
So back to reassembly: but this time the crank lever at the case hits a hard stop. No springy- feel like I think it’s meant to have.
Have my plates dried out too much, should I resoak?
Any other reassembly notes, things to watch out for? I got it right at least once, so I’m wracking my brain about what I might have done differently.

Note: (I have checked my plate order: odd friction plate furthest from the bike)

 

[AnalogLiz]

I May be having an aha… should I be in neutral when reassembling clutch? And if I’ve moved that foot shift lever along the way (like to put it in gear so I could unlock that slotted nut), might I be missing neutral?

 

[AnalogLiz]

Okay I shall look into that gear shift mechanism and star wheel, etc.
I’m the meantime, here’s the view of clutch pack/basket as it sits now.

 

[AnalogLiz]

“The springs do look quite compressed and nearly coil bound, coils nearly touching”
Yes, I thought so, too, which is why I added that photo. I wonder if the pressure plate isn’t seating “back” enough (toward the bike) in the clutch basket? That space behind the plates, hmmm