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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Thanks for the advice Richard. Off hand do you know where Nitrile O-rings fall on that spectrum? I have a variety assortment and the label claims they stand up to high temps, oil, and gasoline.

The past couple days have been productive. I just got the crank case buttoned up. Started with the shift forks:







New hex screw on the star cog thing because the phillips (JIS whatever) was all chewed up. Took me a couple hours to figure out how this actually works (I neglected to play around with the transmission on the disassembly so this was a big step). After I was able to assemble the transmission and the forks reliably I moved on to the kick starter:



On the inside of the crank case at the end of the kickstart spindle there is a small 12mm circlip. If you have even the slightest bit of doubt REPLACE IT. I put the kick starter together and kicked it several times verifying that it worked properly. I was a little unsure of the condition of the circlip but figured it was working so what the hell. After about half a dozen kicks working with no problem the circlip came loose and the springs blew the parts all over the inside of the crank case. I can only imagine how ugly that would be had it happened while the bike was in motion.

Next up is are the camchain tension adjustment bolts. I've been zinc plating all of the external bolts for looks and these could use a dip.

Before:



Into the drink (hydrochloric acid) to remove old zinc before plating:



After:



I'm pretty happy with the zinc plating over all but I've noticed a bit of zinc oxide on some of the bolts that had been stored in a moist ziplock bag. I wonder if doing a chromate dip would prevent the zinc from oxidizing so quickly?

Here's the neutral shift bolt that looks well:



And a crank case bolt with some zinc oxide:



Going to have to look into some of the zinc chromates.

I gave the cases a generous coat of honda bond. Apparently I fear oil ruining my paint job more than I do honda bond ruining my paint job:



A damp rag and a finger nail does the job but it's slow work. If anyone has a secret I'm all ears. I have a feeling that anything which removes the sealer will also remove the paint so I think the slow method wins.

Here it is all buttoned up. Progress!!!



On a side note. Does anyone know what the two oil seals in question are?? I'm drawing a blank:

 

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You are more likely to get a leak with a generous coat of HondaBond. The reason they use hondabond is to keep the cases dimensionally stable. Too much causes the cases to be too far apart at the seem, and creates a felxible area that the cases can move on...after a while, the bond breaks and leaks ensue. Hondabond is supposed to only make up the slight irregularities of the machined surfaces.

In addition, when done correctly, does not change the dimensions of the assembled cases. The means bearings and seals are held in place by the casting, rather than the bond....

If you have it apart again, I would redo this with less. I used a piece of credit card and made a thin, see through layer.....No leaks on my seams....
 

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Thanks for the advice Richard. Off hand do you know where Nitrile O-rings fall on that spectrum? I have a variety assortment and the label claims they stand up to high temps, oil, and gasoline.
Nitrile is also referred to as Buna-N. These are pretty much your standard o-rings used everywhere.

Taken from a website:
"Presently the seal industry's most widely used and economical elastomer, Nitrile combines excellent resistance to petroleum-based oils and fuels, silicone greases, hydraulic fluids, water and alcohols, with a good balance of such desirable working properties as low compression set, high tensile strength, and high abrasion resistance."

Nice build, I'll be following along as I have a cb360 I just tore down and am in the parts collecting stages.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Thanks for the tip!

I'll have a proper update soon. I decided that I do in fact hate the color of the engine and stripped the paint (fyi duplicolor cast iron doesn't look like what the cap says!!!)

I recently got a cheap powder coating setup so I'm going to try out some high temp powder coat for the engine cases in a lighter aluminum color. Pics soon!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Update time.

As I mentioned I was unhappy with my previous engine paint job. It seemed kind of crazy to strip and redo it but I figure I might as well be happy with the work as I'm going to live with it for a while.

I recently got a cheap powder coating gun from harbor freight and gave it a try. I ordered some "high temp" engine powder from powderbythepound.com. It's pricey stuff but I'm hoping for the best. Started off by masking the machined surfaces with high temp tape and corking the holes:



Put a single coat of powder on and cooked for 20min at 450 degrees as per manufacturers instructions. I was worried because the HF gun is pretty crappy and the powder didn't go on as even as I would have liked. It came out much better than I expected though:







Finally happy with the paint job, I'm about ready to reassemble for the last time hopefully.

Also of note. Although I was fairly happy with my electroplating results, it was pretty time consuming. I found a place that does small order zinc plating for a VERY reasonable price. Check out Hearn Plating in Toledo OH if you need zinc work done. Their minimum is $100 and you'd have a hard time going over that with most motorcycle hardware. I sent three quart sized ziplock bags full of nuts/bolts and a bundle of studs/axles. Not a bad deal.

The wife got me a Pamco ignition and I found the pipes I wanted for a reasonable price. Build time!!!!!

 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Got a present in the mail today:



Fresh zinc!

That means I had everything I needed to get started putting the bottom end back together.







Couple questions:

1. How do you measure the ring gap? As you can see the rings have a huge gap until they're actually compressed. However I won't know how much they're actually compressed until they're in the cylinder and it doesn't seem possible to measure them at that point.

2. Is there a trick to getting the pistons in? I saw a "ring compression tool" at harbor freight I'm thinking about getting if I can't come up with a better way. I'd like to not have to do that though.
 

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The ring gap is measured by putting the rings in the cylinder without the piston.
The bottom of the cylinder is tapered. If you work slowyly, using your hand to compress the ring, you can get them in. A large stainless hose clamp can be used as a ring compressor. ..or just buy one

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Where did you end up sending your hardware? The zinc plating looks really good. I am in Columbus, working on a 350. Good to see some Ohio folks here!


Dan

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Oops I see the my question has been answered already! I may give them a try.


Dan

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
Yeah I definitely prefer it over the puke green duplicolor.

I just about have the top end buttoned up. Here's today's progress:

I was able to compress the rings using a piece of 2 liter bottle and a hose clamp. Rings compressed all the way and slid right into the cylinders:



Before anyone gives me hell, yes I cleaned those gasket surfaces before putting it together. :cool: I put the head on, torqued it down, and realized I picked a lousy time to try and fuss with getting the master link set on the cam chain.



The chain tool I had was a complete POS and I had to grind portions of it away with the dremel just to get the chain link set. Nearly two hours spent trying to get the master link set. It's my own fault for waiting until I head the head bolted down (but I still blame the crappy chain tool).

Realized there was no cam thrust washer when I disassembled and I had well over 1mm of side to side play of the cam. That's no good so I ran to Western Hills Honda to buy a $7 washer. Thrust washer in and my side to side is within spec.





A couple more questions before I can move forward:

1. I'm a little unsure about getting the timing right when I tightened down the cam chain sprocket. I didn't torque the bolts yet because I wasn't sure. The book says to do the following:
a. Turn rotor to the LT mark (left piston to TDC).
b. Insert sprocket so that the two lines are horizontal.
c. Rotate cam to line up with holes and bolt them together.

I have to be missing something because I know the cam and the crankshaft have a 2:1 ratio. This means it would be easy to get the timing 180° out of phase. Can someone point me to a clearer way of making sure I don't completely screw this up?

2. I put the new cam chain tensioners in. I had trouble getting the tensioner pushed down all the way. I know there has to be some way to compress that semi-circular "arm" under the crank shaft that pushes upward on the tensioner but I'm not sure how to go about this. I anticipated this problem and compressed the springs as much as I could and locked down the adjustment screw prior to closing the lower crank case but I guess it's not compressed enough.
 

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1. AS long as you got ALL of the MARKS lined up correctly then you are fine. You cannot be 180 degrees out as long as you did. You technically don't set the CYCLES until the cam cover is installed.

2. There is a special process for the tensioner. Go to the manuals and technical docs section of the forums and get the recall paper for the tensioners and read through it. You will need a piece of threaded rod that is I THINK 1mm in size. Its the same size as the screws for the signal lights. That process will let you pull the plunger back out as far as it can. The paper also gives some measurements for checking distances and such before clamping things down.
 

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I had forgotten about leathals thread glad it made it over here in the move.

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Ok here's today's problem:

I was trying to get the tensioner seated properly and noticed it was very difficult to get within the specs mentioned on the recall bulletin (tensioner 8-15mm above head surface). I pulled the cylinders back off to look at the tensioner arm and found the problem:





The "lower damper" that sits in the end of the tensioner arm seems misshaped. I think it's bend because it looks like the bottom loop of the tensioner should fit inside here. Does anyone have a picture of one that isn't bent? I figure I could bend it back to normal but I'm not sure what normal looks like.
 

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It just bends away from the blade I belive it goes in so that metal bit faces away from the crank. If you put it in backwards it hits on the crank cap in the center.

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Crisis averted.

Was able to bend the damper back to normal and get it set in the tensioner arm. Also... I got the tensioner/slipper in without that special tool. I hope that doesn't mean I did something wrong. I just used my superhuman thumb strength to push down until I could bolt it in. Feels like it's in there right:





 
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