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I'd like to see a picture of one of those diaphragm carbs, the only cv style carbs I've seen on a bomber had vacuum pistons. Never any mention of it in magazine articles, back in the day. As far as power was concerned, it certainly was quicker than anything else we had in the shop back then. As far as handling, it didn't feel as light and nimble as a Triumph twin but once you got used to it you didn't notice the difference.
 

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Looking at the pics, this will be a little work. Cool rare find!

Can say I am almost 100% certain that front fender does not go on this bike. Looks like a superhawk fender.

As far a carbs with diaphragms. I think maybe someone is confused between this and the 305.
 

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As I recall, they had that style front fender. The 305s never used cv carbs, the CB350 (far as I know)was the first. Back in the day we used to put the Honda 450 carbs on two-stroke race bikes. The Bultaco pursang and Greeves engines in the 250 class had big honkin' Amal carbs. Their piston port engines had a real peaky power band and if you came out of a slow corner and opened the throttle too much it would flood the engine and bog down. With the Honda carb you could whack the throttle wide open it would just accelerate, with the slide opening as the engine needed it. The Bultaco rep came to visit our shop one day and the boss showed him the new carb setup. Cranked up the motorcycle,warmed it just a bit, a minute later it sat there and idled on its own. Rode it a couple of laps around the parking lot and pulled up the back door, it sat there and idled. Laid it over on its side(try that with an Amal Monoblock), it lay there on the ground and idled. He sent the guy off with a carb and manifold to try out. A few months later the factory sent it back,they had rejected it,"no increase performance". That figures, at least the damn thing would run all day and not flood every time you looked at it.
 

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The following info may be helpful.

The first mention here in the UK of Red Dragon was when the 450s were first being introduced in early 66. Most dealers offered it on black. It wasn't known as the Black Bomber then.

One dealer only knowing a red version was available advertised it as the Red Dragon. Maybe just to be different.

There are paint manufacturers that can match up the paint colours exactly given the original will have probably faded by know.

The silver was Honda Cloud Silver and every now and then a tin or two pops up but rarely.

The closest colour Red I have found is Ford Sunset Red. This red, like the original, has the knack of looking orangey
In different lights as it should.

As mentioned before the frame is a 1965.

It would be worth checking your harness to see if it has 1965 stamped on it. If it is later then you need to find a 1965 to put on to be correct. They are about.

I recently found one for my early 1965 360 degree Japanese Home Market bomber I am presently restoring.

Again the engine number would be useful to see if that is correct. You gave a frame number I do not recognise and wonder if that was a vin no.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Ray: Engine number CB450E 1009327. I checked the wiring harness and it says 1965. I have been bringing Bmw motorcycles back to life for the past 30 years although I did work on some 1960-1970 Hondas back in the 1990s. -this Honda is an interesting fix. We are only cleaning it up and repairing what is needed, first using used parts then if we have to OEM. The tank is in good condition and the paint good. The frame has some rust in spots. We are not repainting or using new nuts and bolts except where we have to. thank you for you response-Jim
 

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I realize you are most interested in communicating with Ray on these bikes, he is an expert. However it is worth mentioning that I have a Black Bomber titled as a 1966 with an engine number CB450E-1009144. I believe it to be original to the bike as the frame serial number on mine is close to 1011100. From what I have seen on other K0 450 engines and frames it is typical for the numbers to be about 2000 apart. I would not be surprised if the engine on yours is not the original. Still an early frame though and a great bike to rehabilitate. It will be interesting to get Ray’s take on the numbers.
 

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Thanks for your comments 12ozPBR. It's always more interesting when the discussions involve more people. It's the best way of learning I find.

I totally agree with your comments regarding the engine. It is not a 65 and more likely to be late 66 onwards. I have some bombers with lower numbers than 9144 and those are 66 registrations.

So the bike is accepted for what it is. A rare red with an early frame and a later engine replacement. Or, try and find an early 65 engine which will add the value back to what you have. I do not know how the 65 numbers ran. Guess they were in low hundreds.

Maybe someone can tell us?
 

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On the subject of BMWs.
When I first started into bikes at 17/18 years old (legally and more than 50 years ago) my older brothers two friends rode what were then old BMs.

One had I think was an R57 and the other an R69s? They loved them to bits and I can see why. Always liked them since myself.

When I was in Barcelona on holiday I saw a model of a really old BM with a side car in a menswear shop window.

It was probably about a foot long (12 inches) metal and immaculate. I went in to see if they would sell it to me. No way. That's the closest I ever got to owning a BMW.
 

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Not wanting to hijack the thread, but if you like old BMWs I have a few pictures of some I have recently worked on on my Instagram. It is Deadendcycleandmachine.
TOOLS
 

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Looks like I have some humble pie to eat. My 'red bomber' ran very poorly from new. Took it back to the dealer and the mechanic reckonded he knew the problem, carb diaphrams. Now I know better, having seen inside this type of carb. But, whatever they did, it worked so....
Just as an aside, the earler Honda Goldwings use a very similar carb with the solid piston system. And as another aside, the Goldwing uses an almost identical starter motor too... Amazing after all the intervening years.
I have posted this somewhere before, but it might serve as a guide for renovation.
 

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