CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started - Page 4
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Thread: CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started

  1. #31
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    It certainly can't hurt to spin the engine over with the starter to get oil moving everywhere before actually turning the key on for the first time. I don't know that you need to worry about the oil pump, I think it will be fine when it's submerged in oil, but I'd still pre-lube everything
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  2. #32
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    Just went out in the shop and looked at Mine, the tail light wires pass through those loops and turn under the edge of the fender by the mounting bolt, then up through the tail light bracket. Two wires,white and blue in a grey tube, early hondas didn't have a dedicated ground wire.
    Last edited by mike in idaho; 07-31-2019 at 07:58 AM.
    '65 YG1
    '65 CB160
    '66 CL160
    '67 CL77
    '68 TR6
    '69 T100R
    '69 T120R
    '72 Commando 750
    '78 XS650E
    '79 Gl1000
    '81 440 LTD
    My company car is a Kenworth

  3. #33
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Thank you chaps.

    Tom - if it had a starter, I'd give that a go . . . . . . but since it's kick only, there'll probably need to be a lot of legwork. I've just done the same with the 750 I'm rebuilding to make sure oil is going to the top end (it is).

    Mike - thanks again. Any tips on routing the clutch cable?
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

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  5. #34
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    Silly me - forgot the CL didn't have electric start
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  6. #35
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    OK - so now I've got the right hump . . .

    Finally got to the point where I thought I could start the bike today. Spent way too long messing about with the petcock 'cos I'd managed to put the spring washer in front of the lever plate (so it was sat against the rubber) and wondered why fuel pissed out all over the place. Buggered about with that and put it right, found I'd managed to not put the air screws into the rebuilt carbs . . . which was very weird. Sorted that and put fuel, power and everything else on . . .

    . . . nothing. The odd slight cough and kickback on the kickstarter, but nothing significant and no sign of starting. Again, spent a fair old while checking firing timing, spark, compression, fuel - the whole bit. Got a bit fed up with the kickstarter so used Mustie's trick of turning the engine over with a drill. Still nothing.

    So I'm hoping someone can explain this for me:


    CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started-timing2.jpg

    Look carefully and you'll see the T mark and the locating mark on the end of the camshaft are pointing up - and inside, the cam sprocket is oriented the same, meaning everything lines up as we talked about a few posts back. What you might not be able to see is that at this setting, the right hand points are wide open - and I mean w-i-d-e open. Looking at the activity going on down the spark plug hole, the right hand side has just completed it's compression stroke at this point and is waiting to fire.

    Rotating the crank farther, the points come together and they only fire when the locating mark points down . . . at the exact point where the piston is TDC on the exhaust stroke. As far as I can see, that means the locating mark - and hence the spark mechanism cam - is 180deg from where it needs to be in order for the engine to run . . .

    . . . which I think means the engine is going to have to come out for a third time . . . with the way the rocker shafts are held in, I'm pretty sure that even if there is enough clearance to take the top off, the camshaft/sprocket work can't be done in the frame.
    Last edited by the-chauffeur; 08-11-2019 at 11:56 AM.
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  7. #36
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    I'm sure you can get the top cover off without pulling the engine if you feel the need to check. When the camshaft mark is up, at the re-assembly position, the right hand camshaft will be in the tdc exhaust stroke position with both valves slightly open. The marks on the cam should point down at tdc on the firing stroke. Easy enough to check by peeking under the cylinder head cover. I assume you have double-checked that the points are connected to the right coil connections. Have you adjusted the choke linkage so both chokes close together. Pull the lever all the way up then back down just a hair(so it doesn't flood) is the usual starting drill.
    '65 YG1
    '65 CB160
    '66 CL160
    '67 CL77
    '68 TR6
    '69 T100R
    '69 T120R
    '72 Commando 750
    '78 XS650E
    '79 Gl1000
    '81 440 LTD
    My company car is a Kenworth

  8. #37
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike . . . but that doesn't describe the sequence I see. Assuming right is the RHS as if you're seated on the bike (so when I'm facing the timing marks and points I'm looking down the right spark plug hole) . . .

    . . . turning the crank, the intake opens and then closes as the T mark on the cam end points upwards. At the top of the piston motion, with the T mark lining up with the mark on the alternator case and the cam end mark pointing up, there's no pressure on either valve. And the points are wide open.

    Move past this point and the exhaust valve engages. As rotation continues, the points close and as the T mark reaches the mark on the alternator case, the cam mark is pointing down and the piston is up again, the exhaust valve is still engaged. And the points have just opened having hit the F mark immediately before reaching the T.

    Since that's pretty much the opposite of what you've described, I think either the cam or the spark advancer end is upside down. Neither of those options make a great deal of sense given how carefully I put this thing together last time, but it's the only logical conclusion I can draw. The one thing I may have got wrong is the cam sprocket orientation, because I assumed the paint splodge was the marker that indicated top. Did I misread that?
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  9. #38
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    Should be a small o stamped on the cam sprocket.


    edit: Just looked at My 305 scrambler, at the firing mark on the right hand cylinder(both valves closed) that little hash on the points can points down.
    Last edited by mike in idaho; 08-11-2019 at 03:55 PM.
    '65 YG1
    '65 CB160
    '66 CL160
    '67 CL77
    '68 TR6
    '69 T100R
    '69 T120R
    '72 Commando 750
    '78 XS650E
    '79 Gl1000
    '81 440 LTD
    My company car is a Kenworth

  10. #39
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    Location
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    So does that mean my hypothesis about having something - like the spark advance/cam end - upside down is right?
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  11. #40
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
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    I would think so, temporarily turn the points plate upside down( I think the wires are long enough) and see if it runs.
    ancientdad likes this.
    '65 YG1
    '65 CB160
    '66 CL160
    '67 CL77
    '68 TR6
    '69 T100R
    '69 T120R
    '72 Commando 750
    '78 XS650E
    '79 Gl1000
    '81 440 LTD
    My company car is a Kenworth

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