CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started - Page 3
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Thread: CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started

  1. #21
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Hey Mike

    I haven't - and thanks for his details - but I'm not entirely sure what I'll be asking because I don't know (or have any experience in decoding) the exact chain specifications. I know from others that Sprockets Unlimited have a record of chain type by bike, but looking at the Chain Man site, I'm probably going to need the specs.

    I've sent him a speculative request with the bike details and I'll see what he says . . . meantime, if anyone has any of the chain specs, I'm all ears.

    Thanks again.
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  2. #22
    Sensei 66Sprint's Avatar
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    Generally, chain sizing is four basic measurements:
    Pitch..... Pin center to pin center
    Pin diameter.....
    Roller diameter......
    Roller length...(width between inside plates)
    "I have a mind like a steel trap.....Old and rusty, of antiquated design, and hard to get stuff back out of...."
    Contact info: E-mail; [email protected] Phone; 540-525-5199

  3. #23
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Following up . . .

    . . . I met Jason (the Chain Man) today at a bike show. Nice fella. Unfortunately, he looked a bit baffled by all three chains and said that although he had chains that were similar, none of them were the same. He'd brought along what he thought would be a match for the primary drive chain, but it was the wrong pitch. He suggested a couple of other places, but I'd tried pretty much all of them.

    But he did suggest contacting the chain manufacturer - OCM in Japan - to see whether they still stock/make the primary chain. I guess I'll give that a go.

    Sprint - thanks for that, although I'm still not convinced I'll get the measuring right.

    To save me screwing up the numbers, anyone wanna chuck in what they think the chain details are? I'll have a go at measuring up either way; just thought it would be good to get some reliable numbers . . .

    Cheers
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

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  5. #24
    Senior Member Richard_Pitman's Avatar
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    Just digging through a pile of old magazines, I came across the July 2000 edition of Classic Motorcycle Mechanics, which contains Part 5 of a CL77 restoration project, and details the authors problem with finding a replacement primary drive chain. If I've read this correctly, it is a 94 link length of 328 chain, 3/8" pitch by 3/8" width. Apparently, a very uncommon size.

    To cut a long story short, an OEM chain was available, but author was unwilling to pay for this. Other options included a duplex chain kit ( too expensive) or thinning the sprockets to take a 325 chain ( too weak ). Article concluded with primary chain issue unresolved.

    However, I'm pretty sure that the author, Mark Haycock, still contributes to CMM, so why not email him and see what he eventually did ?

    EDIT PM me your postal address and I'll post the mag to you, if you want it.

    Further Edit. I'm a subscriber to CMM, and was able to search their back issues catalogue. The complete CL77 resto covered 21 articles, as below:

    CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started-cb77.jpg
    Last edited by Richard_Pitman; 07-14-2019 at 01:29 PM.
    ancientdad likes this.
    1970 Honda CB175K4
    1972 Honda CL175K7
    1999 Honda CB600 Hornet
    1970 - 1972 Random heap of CB/CL/SL 175 parts, slowly being reassembled ..

  6. #25
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Richard - that's extraordinarily kind of you. And those numbers make a lot of sense in the context of the information James was able to give me. I've just had the calipers out and yup, those measurements all check out. And for anyone else who's interested, I make the pin roller diameter to be 1/4in.

    I've put an enquiry to webike; it's a Japanese parts warehouse that says it has a huge range of stuff but doesn't seem to list it online. You have to apply using a slightly strange enquiry form system. I'll see what they come back with. OCM's site gives its contact details, so if nothing else shows up, I'll give them a go. Can't say I hold out a whole lot of hope either way, but I guess it's worth a try.

    And that's a very generous offer in relation to CMM. Let me have a look in the loft first; I bought a pile of copies at a show a long time ago. I went through them when I got the CL looking for articles but stupidly forgot that the engine was used across the C range. I'm pretty sure I've got copies ranging from about 180-220ish, and it's possible I've got the one you mentioned. But thanks again.

    I picked up the painted tinware parts today. It's taking a lot of restraint to stop me from balancing some of it on the frame to see how it looks. But I've told myself not to risk it while the engine is still out. Hopefully the cylinder stud will turn up in the next few days and it can all go back together for the third or maybe fourth time.


    Edit: webike turned out to be a non-starter. Rather unhelpfully, the response I got was that the parts were discontinued (tell me something I don't know . . . )
    Last edited by the-chauffeur; 07-15-2019 at 02:56 AM.
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  7. #26
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    With webike's negative response ringing in my ears, I got in touch with OCM. To my surprise, they got back to me the next day . . .

    . . . but much to absolutely no-one's surprise, they no longer make the chain used for the primary drive of the C-series bikes. So I think that puts the tin lid on it; there really is no more of this stuff out there, other than the small stashes that will be with a handful of folks who've wisely (or accidentally) squirrelled it away.

    If, like me, you've walked into restoring these bikes without knowing about the chain scarcity, I sympathise. About the best you can do now is to hold out for some NOS stuff turning up on eBay or similar, pick up used chains and hope they've still got some life left in them or look around for a duplex conversion kit like the one offered by Cappellini Moto. Nova Racing also do a kit, but from what I can see, the Cappellini kit is more comprehensive and by the looks of it, better value.

    Just a word of warning; Cappellini do some very nice stuff, but it ain't cheap. You could end up spending a lot of money very quickly.
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  8. #27
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Quick change of direction . . . rear mudguard confusion.

    I'm having trouble understanding how the chrome passenger loop attaches to the mudguard - or rather, the parts diagram I'm using for reference shows a different set up to the bike I'm working on. Here's the parts diagram:

    CL77 reassembly - couple of questions before we get started-honda-cl77-scrambler-1965-usa305-swingarmrear-fender_bighu0093f8s11_2ca5.jpg

    The combination of part #'s 28, 1 and 17 suggest the guard is rubber mounted to handle, with a bolt that the nut fits onto. Problem one is that I can't see that bolt in the diagram. I think it's on there but you've got to really look for it and it's not listed as a part in its own right. Look carefully to the left of the left hand #27 bolt, and there's what looks like a bolt that points left; I think that was supposed to be the mounting bolt for the guard.

    Problem two is that my mudguard has threaded holes in it and seemingly no space for the part 28, 1 and 17 assembly. Equally, the handle mounts (ears?) have been tweaked in the past to fit very tightly against the guard to the point where I can't refit the newly painted guard without scratching it . . . consequently I'm not doing that right now. So what I don't know is what the method of mounting should be used when the guard has threaded holes. Looks to me like it's just a case of sticking the right size bolt (and washer) though the handle hole and into the thread in the mudguard, but I'm kinda wondering whether there should be any sort of rubber involved.

    It'll be a little while until I fit everything up, so I'm all ears for ideas. If nothing turns up, I might make up my own solution and use either rubber washers or grommets or something.

    Cheers.


    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  9. #28
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    The earlier bikes didn't use a rubber grommet to mount the rear guard, just the appropriate size bolts and washers. The rear end of the seat mounting was different also, early ones bolted the rear mount directly to the frame and later ones a rubber grommet involved between the rear mount and the frame.
    '65 YG1
    '65 CB160
    '66 CL160
    '67 CL77
    '68 TR6
    '69 T100R
    '69 T120R
    '72 Commando 750
    '78 XS650E
    '79 Gl1000
    '81 440 LTD
    My company car is a Kenworth

  10. #29
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Oh man. If only I'd known that before I spent twenty quid on two seat bolt only to find that they're for the earlier models and don't fit the later. Nuts.

    I may have found a NOS primary drive chain. Not bought yet 'cos it's not cheap, but I think it's pretty inevitable that I'll pick it up.

    Next up, wiring and cable routing. Are there any halfway decent routing diagrams out there? I've not fitted the tank yet, and I think the throttle cable routing is fairly intuitive, but the clutch cable seems to want to stick out at a strange angle. And I can't quite work out how the loom should pass the tank mounts. Photos would be really helpful . . .

    Cheers
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

  11. #30
    Senior Member the-chauffeur's Avatar
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    Little details

    I'm getting closer to starting this thing, but there are still a few kinks to iron out. I finally bit the bullet and bought a NOS drive chain. I'll fit it up when it arrives and take the best of the two used ones and put that into the CA that I'm building.

    I'm still after some kind of cable routing diagram/help. It's not essential, but would be nice to know why the clutch cable seems to be flapping about.

    Meantime, on putting the front mudguard together with the chrome frame, I've noticed a really nice little touch. The chrome frame has a little locating loop just inside the section that attaches the assembly to the forks. From what I can make out, that loop is for holding a locking washer that's an odd shape. When I ordered the washer, I couldn't understand why it was such an funny design, but if you've seen the chrome frame and noticed the loop, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say it's made for the washer to lock into.

    Which got me thinking about the grab handle. On the chain side of the bike there are two small hoops sticking out of the grab handle, pointing into the mudguard. What I can't figure out is what they're for. It's pretty clear they're not for the taillight wires (there's at least one tab on the underside of the rear mudguard for them) so I'm left wondering what purpose did they serve? I guess they could be helmet hooks, but they seem to be a bit small for that.

    The other thing I'm wanting to do right is oiling for the first start. I've yet to fill up with oil because of the primary chain thing, but when I do, what's the best way to prime the oil pump and sure it's drawing in oil and not air? I'm planning on putting oil into the cases and then turning the engine over a fair few times with the ignition off to flood the various oilways and I assume that should do it. Any other suggestions?

    Cheers
    CL77 (1966)
    CA77 (1966)
    SL350 K0 (1969)

    SL350 K2 (1971)
    CB450 K6 (1972)
    CB750 K2 (1972)

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