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Swingarm bushings, collars, wear tolerances, replacement

12K views 49 replies 9 participants last post by  crazypj 
#1 ·
I'm building a '68 CL350 and I've just gotten to taking apart the swingarm a bit. My plan was to install some new bronze bushings, and I wound up buying these bronze bushings from performanceintl (in Costa Mesa CA) off eBay. Hopefully they're "good", as I couldn't get ahold of Bob Franzke the "Polish guy", and both mentioned their bushings were SAE 660 bearing bronze (Alloy No. C93200). Although, the guy at Performance Intl was named Bob, so maybe they're the same guy...

As part of my research for replacement bushings, I read that it was likely that the collars would be worn as well. After cleaning them up, I noticed the grooves seemed uneven, and one of them had some surface rust (!). One is 20.0mm in diameter, and the other seems to be closer to 19.9mm. Is there any "spec" for these things, should I just write them off due to the rust, or is it no big deal?

I'm gonna put them in a parts tumbler overnight, but I don't have high hopes here. I'm just told they're no longer available from Honda.

 
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#3 ·
I don't remember the year of yours, my 72 CL uses 52141-286-000 and 52141-268-000 collars. The long one, 52141-286-000, I found on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB350-CL3 ... _793wt_663 and the short one 52141-268-000 I got from Honda last week. The guy on ebay shipped pretty fast, got within 2 weeks instead of the expected 5-6 weeks.
The guy Bob you talked to at PI is Bob Franzke.
 
#5 ·
It looks the same, other than no wear on it. The old one is in the bike for assembly purposes at the moment but I'll be pulling it in the next day or so and measure it to be positive.
Yeah, a bit pricey but what can we do when we need the part. One thought I've had was to have it turned down and get an industrial coating/chroming done to bring it back to spec..
 
#7 ·
Swapped out the old and new collar today, the one from Thailand. ID and OD are exactly the same, the length is .010" longer which is good since the old one seemed too short and was causing too much on the swing arm when torqued. Now it's moving freely.
 
#10 ·
I got them out, but they were a bear. My blind-hole bearing puller came in mighty handy, and I finally bought a proper propane torch as this is the second time it would have been lovely to have. None of them would budge until I put two deep grooves in each with a hacksaw.



Here they are next to the glorious brass bushings:



The bushings are 20.8mm long (with the lip being 3.9mm). Large outer diameter is 30.8, and the small outer diameter is 26mm. The inner diameter is 20mm. My micrometer seems to be +/- 0.1mm...

Now what do I do about the shock mount bushings? Mine look janky.
 
#11 ·
They are still available thru Honda 40548-268-000 , seems they fit everything from the 70's thru mid 80's that use a clevis shock end :lol:
I haven't had to do this but I understand that cutting them out is the easiest, Supposedly they can be pressed out.
 
#14 ·
Here are the collars, with old next to new. The new ones are slightly different, as they both have holes in the back as well as the front, while the old ones do not. Everyone likes grease, though, right? The one from Honda is shiny. The one from Asia is not. Is it possible this was machined from inferior metal or is has it just dulled a bit? The dimensions all match (except for the flare at the hole, which seems like an improvement). I think I'm being paranoid.

 
#15 ·
Yeah, I've wondered about that too. My old long one was in better shape than your old one and had the same brightness as the originals. Maybe Honda made a material change. Old machinist looked at my old one when I was thinking I have to get it made and said it was Vanadium Chrome steel. Only way to tell is get it tested for hardness.
 
#17 ·
what? no dragon slaying :lol:
I'm thinking I'll get the old ones checked one day and then explore having them replated or coated to bring it back to spec. Another addition to the growing future project list :?
 
#18 ·
Remember you are installing a Steel Internal Bushing that will have a Bronze Outer Bearing surface.

Which one do you think will wear faster? - I don't think a milder steel will make any difference.
 
#20 ·
#21 ·
longdistancerider said:
You cannot trust ebay for any part numbers. Use one of the online Honda fiche systems to get the correct number like this one http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_se ... &mfg=Honda
For the bushing several member, myself included, have used these with very good results viewtopic.php?f=21&t=20921&hilit=Performance+international . The collars are becoming and issue, Honda is supplying one of them still, the longer one will have to be searched for.
is this the collar # Honda still supplies?

40548-268-000
 
#23 ·
NO...The 40548-268-000 part number is the rubber shock cushion at the rear of the swingarm.....

The COLLARS are 52141-268-000 which I believe is NLA, and 52141-286-000.....
NOTE that the center triplets are correct even though they LOOK transposed....one is 286, one is 268....

Yendor,..... Re your "which do you think" statement.....
Faulty assumption......At the left cam to bearing journals of the 175 and 200's, the STEEL camshaft often shows more wear/damage than the ALUMINUM bearing after an oiling/lubrication failure....It's all about ability to transfer the frictive heat away as to which will show wear first or most.....However, I'm inclined to agree with you in the case of the swingarm bushes/collars....EXCEPT that the steel MUST be hardened if using metal bushes, so NO mild steel.....Stainless would work..... ;) ;)
 
#24 ·
Steve - The assumption on wear was based on the Swing Arm Bushings which are a Low Movement - High Stress Joint with Grease Fittings. The Bronze Bushings "SHOULD" wear faster than the Steel Collars in this arrangement.

But "YES" in the case of a Fast Moving Friction Part like the Steel Cam in an Aluminium Journal Bearing it's going to be anyone's guess if the Oil Supply fails. The Steel would most likely end up collecting metal from the Journal Bearing "GALLING" and fail as the condition progresses.
 
#25 ·
Yendor said:
Steve - The assumption on wear was based on the Swing Arm Bushings which are a Low Movement - High Stress Joint with Grease Fittings. The Bronze Bushings "SHOULD" wear faster than the Steel Collars in this arrangement.
Yes...You'll notice I agreed with you in advance of your reply (because of the low movement aspect)....However, I believe one would be better off with hardened collars as well....Mild steel is more malleable and less wear resistant than hardened or stainless...And it is the wear (slop) at that pressure point we are trying to eliminate.....JMHO....
 
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