The Riddle CB175
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Thread: The Riddle CB175

  1. #1
    Junior Member BooTheRoo2's Avatar
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    The Riddle CB175

    Hello, fellow Honda enthusiasts. My friend and I are having some issues with my 1969 Honda CB175. I ordered new friction plates and new clutch plates for it, but I only ordered 5 friction plates and 4 metal plates because that was how many there were in the clutch when we took it apart. However, in the Honda guide book we found a diagram that shows clutch assembly and in the diagram there are 6 friction plates and 5 metal plates. The only thing is, there is not enough room for two more plates. The no. of plates that I ordered fit very snugly....we tried to put in as many as the diagram showed by adding an old metal plate and a friction plate but they just would not fit. The snap ring will not go on if all of the plates shown in the Honda diagram are put in. So...what do we do now??? Also, we need a new snap ring and lock ring. My friend said he's looked all over the internet and can't find them available to buy. Where can we find these parts? Thank you.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Riddle CB175-basket.jpg  
    Last edited by BooTheRoo2; 11-14-2019 at 12:55 AM.

  2. #2
    Sensei 66Sprint's Avatar
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    Never having had that model here, I am unsure how to advise you, but IF it was functioning with 5 frictions before, it should work that way again...My 175 only has five friction (fibre) plates and works fine...

    Snap rings are simply metric ones and might be available at a hardware store....They are here.......

    Pics of the disassembled clutch (particularly the inner basket) might help me help you further.....As I would think you need the same number of metal plates as you have frictions, Plus the pressure plate....The "B" plate (innermost) is not simply a flat plate and goes on the center first...then friction, steel "A" plate, friction, steel "A" plate, alternating until the last friction is outermost, then the pressure plate.....
    Five frictions and four steel "A" plates are correct, but add the "B" plate and pressure plate and it will match the fiche drawing......
    Last edited by 66Sprint; 11-14-2019 at 11:11 PM.
    "I have a mind like a steel trap.....Old and rusty, of antiquated design, and hard to get stuff back out of...."
    Contact info: E-mail; [email protected] Phone; 540-525-5199

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    Junior Member ThomBoz's Avatar
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    Hi 66Sprint, I'm ThomBoz, BooTheRoo2's mechanic friend. Having trouble figuring out how to post pictures. See if this works.The Riddle CB175-8-inside-basket.jpgThe Riddle CB175-10-backside-driven.jpg What you suggested, about having an older basket, I suspected. But on BikeBandit, all the part numbers are the same. It appears to me that this basket originally had narrower slots to accommodate narrower friction discs, and that they were machined wider to take the newer friction plates. Why they weren't machined all the way down?... perhaps they had one friction plate with narrow tabs? I can either file them a bit more, or perhaps put in several metal plates together to take up the space. Your opinion is much appreciated. Thanks, Thom

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  5. #4
    Sensei 66Sprint's Avatar
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    NO....NO....NO!......
    The plate shown with the center hub in the latest pic IS the B plate.....starting with a fibre (friction)plate next and alternating the 5 frictions and four steel A plates will be the complete clutch disc pack....Add the pressure plate, springs, keeper and bolts and you are done...No missing plates at that point.....
    There are ONLY 5 frictions in the fiche for your model........link follows.....
    honda-cb175k3-super-sport-general-export-clutch-oil-pump_bigma000121e05_898e.gif
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The Riddle CB175-honda-cb175k3-super-sport-general-export-clutch-oil-pump_bigma000121e05_898e.jpg  
    Last edited by 66Sprint; 11-15-2019 at 04:24 AM.
    Russ Lang and Chainman like this.
    "I have a mind like a steel trap.....Old and rusty, of antiquated design, and hard to get stuff back out of...."
    Contact info: E-mail; [email protected] Phone; 540-525-5199

  6. #5
    Junior Member ThomBoz's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I know what the B plate is. And everything else you said, except the no no no part. So to quote 'Cool Hand Luke', what we have here is a failure to communicate. But I have more pictures and have done more investigating, so perhaps we can figure this out.
    If you look at our 1st picture, you will note the location of the 1st friction plate. It cannot touching the B plate. If the slots in the outer basket were wider, it would. But perhaps I have the B plate in backwards? But according to the manual, I have in correctly.
    But according to other pictures I found online, it is not and the manual is wrong, or at least for our bike. Like you said, maybe we have some transition parts. So I have attached a picture of the manual (and a blow up) so you can see the orientation of the B Plate. And also a picture of our clutch pac with the B Plate in the 'wrong' way according to the manual. But this wrong way seems as if it will actually work, and also the wear marks line up. Let me know what you think. Thanks.The Riddle CB175-p1030516.jpgThe Riddle CB175-p1030516-copy.jpgThe Riddle CB175-p1030515.jpg

  7. #6
    Sensei 66Sprint's Avatar
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    The NO, NO, NO, Was: Don't file the outer's slots or narrow the tabs on a friction plate.......

    Drawing is wrong.......

    Will verify and post pic of correct B plate orientation when I disassemble my clutch on Sunday........
    Last edited by 66Sprint; 11-23-2019 at 01:36 AM.
    "I have a mind like a steel trap.....Old and rusty, of antiquated design, and hard to get stuff back out of...."
    Contact info: E-mail; [email protected] Phone; 540-525-5199

  8. #7
    Senior Member Richard_Pitman's Avatar
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    If it's any help, here's a few pics of one of my 175 clutches.

    The Riddle CB175-dscf2554.jpg The Riddle CB175-dscf2553.jpg

    The Riddle CB175-dscf2552.jpg The Riddle CB175-dscf2546.jpg

    The Riddle CB175-dscf2623.jpg
    Last edited by Richard_Pitman; 11-24-2019 at 06:02 AM.
    1970 Honda CB175K4
    1972 Honda CL175K7
    1999 Honda CB600 Hornet
    1970 - 1972 Random heap of CB/CL/SL 175 parts, slowly being reassembled ..

  9. #8
    Sensei 66Sprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Pitman View Post
    If it's any help, here's a few pics of one of my 175 clutches.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks Richard....

    As anyone can see in the first of the two pictures that I didn't edit out, the correct "stack" has a wider separation between the "B" plate spline "tabs"/teeth and the next steel than the rest of the stack.....

    The second remaining pic shows how this "spaces" the assembled stack away from the closed end of the friction plate "slots" in the clutch outer.....
    "I have a mind like a steel trap.....Old and rusty, of antiquated design, and hard to get stuff back out of...."
    Contact info: E-mail; [email protected] Phone; 540-525-5199

  10. #9
    Junior Member ThomBoz's Avatar
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    Hi Sprint66,
    Thank you very much for your help, especially considering that you pulled your clutch apart to help us. (Of course I might have done the same thing, but then I am old and retired and typically have nothing better to do.)
    I can now say the riddle is solved!... or is it? I still would like to know how/why the manual is wrong. It's the Honda factory manual, published June 1974. It covers the 125 and 175 twins. I checked BikeBandit parts and they show same basic parts for 125, 175, and 200 twins, nothing like the 6 drive plates and 5 driven + B-plate orientation of our manual. So what clutch is that in the manual?
    Another question. Is the attached photo where you got your name?The Riddle CB175-w110-1966-harley-davidson-cr250-sprint-flat-track-9-14-1540840970625-2x.jpg
    Again, thanks for being an involved 'know it all'. I'm also a 'know it all'... but with 70s Suzuki Water Buffaloes and 80s GS1100, and Kawasaki 2000cc Vulcans. Oh, and theology too, but that's not of much interest here.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Richard_Pitman's Avatar
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    Are you sure it's the actual factory service manual ?

    The one we use only covers the 175s, it's aftermarket stuff like Haynes and Clymer etc that include the 125s.

    From the genuine FSM:

    The Riddle CB175-clutch.jpg
    1970 Honda CB175K4
    1972 Honda CL175K7
    1999 Honda CB600 Hornet
    1970 - 1972 Random heap of CB/CL/SL 175 parts, slowly being reassembled ..

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