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Thread: Budget 450 drag bike project

  1. #101
    Senior Member chaindrivecharlie's Avatar
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    Yes i remember, i have not used ceracote, so i dont know the cost. I just figured it couldnt be to expensive. I have read how well it works on power transfer, (less friction).Whats an old swamp billy like me know anyway.

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    Charlie

    1972 CL 175 K6
    1972 CL 350 K4
    1981 CM 400 C

    Joshua 24:15

  2. #102
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    It's not that, I'm sure every little thing like that is beneficial. I thought it was to help increase surface strength, but either way it will be fine without it, the old one was when we didn't even have the product. This bike is to have more fun on than the red one and go faster because I can't lose weight better than the bike can Just can't create any debt to get there
    chaindrivecharlie and Pops like this.
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  3. #103
    Senior Member chaindrivecharlie's Avatar
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    I know what you mean about debt buddy!

    Hell if thats the case, id have to bolt 2 450s together to even compete with you!!

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    Last edited by chaindrivecharlie; 05-30-2019 at 08:17 AM.
    ancientdad and Pops like this.
    Charlie

    1972 CL 175 K6
    1972 CL 350 K4
    1981 CM 400 C

    Joshua 24:15

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  5. #104
    Senior Member JamesPal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    They're probably about the same weight, but the crankshaft is very different. It has cast outer main bearing races with tabs on them and the crank bolts to short studs in the upper case. I should have taken a picture of it, but you could find one online I'm sure. I've always felt they were the more durable crankshaft of the two designs, mostly because I've seen more than a few 5 speed cranks with the right side (primary drive) main bearing race ground up on the crank itself. There's also an advantage of closer ratios between 3rd and 4th in the 4 speed, and 4th pulls better on the far end of the quarter mile than 5th in the 5 speed, less rev dropoff

    Attachment 283210
    Tom,
    I put this RPM calculator for you to play with. You can change the values in the cells that have Red text. The other cells are calculated from the data in the red cells. It is setup for an 11,000 RPM shift point and shows the calculated speed in MPH, starting RPM in the next higher gear and the RPM drop between gears. The variables are: gear ratios (transmission, primary & final drive) tire size, wheel size, sprocket size. Here is a screen shot of the spreadsheet. I put a four speed and five speed section for comparison. It was created in Excel 2013. If anyone knows where it can be posted PM me and I will email it to you. Or PM me and I will send it to you.
    Budget 450 drag bike project-image-rpm-calculator.jpg
    Jim Palmer
    '85 GL1200I (Garage Find)
    '81 GL1100 STD (Project)
    CB450 K5 Done
    https://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-...s-cb450k5.html
    What I learned from Restoring a CB450 K5
    Watch Mike and Jim Take on Mt Erie Washington State
    "If everything seems under control you are not going fast enough" Mario Andretti...

  6. #105
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    PM sent Jim, thanks

    Yesterday was a lot of fun... took the empty engine cases, alternator housing, frame, motor mount bolts and plates and both swingarms to the machinist and laid out my ideas and plans with him. He made some nice suggestions, as expected, and I got to see some of the stuff he's done and is working on currently, as well as his work-in-progress shop... he bought the property and building his shop is in a few years back in preparation for retiring from the local Ball plant (jars and cans) where he was the lead machinist for the crew that kept the production lines running. He's slowly converting the building to what he wants, but has some of his equipment in place - a huge lathe, a Bridgeport milling machine and a new-to-him CNC that he's still both learning and getting updated computer software for (he's not too computer savvy), along with many other tools and equipment that I have no knowledge of. I like this guy, he's down to earth and easy to talk to, he's a gearhead and the kind of guy who takes great pride in what he does and loves to make things better with innovation and quality craftsmanship. Looking forward to building a better relationship with him for getting more stuff done in the future, despite the fact that he's 67 miles from me...

    He sees no problem with narrowing the 650 swingarm to fit the 450 frame and making a new pivot tube to fit the 650 bushing size and the 450 pivot bolt size, along with working on a couple ideas I have for the crankcases. And, he had a few nice ideas for a gas tank for me as well, likely from aluminum formed and shaped to go over the frame similar to a stock tank but significantly smaller. I would have taken some pictures, but he is not open to the public for business and only takes on work by referral, and prefers to be private... but I'll get some pictures with his permission the next time I'm there when some progress has been made. Really looking forward to working with this guy, he does some incredible stuff - just as the owner of United Speed World told me about him when he introduced me to him. BTW, this is the same guy who did the bronze bushing in my red bike's left exhaust cam bearing cap and cleaned up the bearing journal on the cam as well.
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  7. #106
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    While the majority of parts I've been working on are at the machinist's shop, I decided to pull out the second spare 5 speed engine I have to see if the head is usable - at only $50 in it, anything that comes out of it is a bonus since I was able to sell the alternator rotor already. Dragged it over to the lift and put it in my excellent new stand and got to work on it. I hadn't really even looked closely at it before since I didn't need anything from it along the way, so I immediately discovered the left intake cam bearing had all the screws removed from it and it looks like the engine was dropped on that corner of the head at one point. The upper left intake valve cover bolt hole looked damaged at first, but it turned out to be the top edge of the sealing surface where the valve cover goes on - but only the upper half of the hole, strange damage but likely no big deal as the bolt hole is fine. Also saw the cam bearing had some damage on the top screw boss as well but I have spares if it isn't usable. With the engine stuck, I ground down the pins on a link with the angle cutter and drove out the link, then started removing the cap nuts on the cylinder studs. Even they were pretty stuck, had to use a breaker bar to get them moving when the cordless 1/2" impact wouldn't. When one of the plugs was hard to get out of the head, I knew there had to be rust inside... worked it in and out a little and then sprayed the base of it with penetrant, let it soak for a few minutes and it came out fine. Got the head off and found the real rust... now I have a situation like CB450MWL had a while back with his 500T engine - both pistons are sitting in rust. I have another set of cylinders from the other engine, but we'll see. Thankfully I don't need the crank from this one anytime soon - if ever - so it can soak for a while

    Budget 450 drag bike project-20190607_145851.jpg Budget 450 drag bike project-20190607_145833.jpg

    Budget 450 drag bike project-20190607_145821.jpg Budget 450 drag bike project-20190607_145813.jpg
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    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  8. #107
    Super Moderator frogman79's Avatar
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    Nummy, looks like my 450 when I took it down.
    chaindrivecharlie likes this.
    Franz >>> 450 build >>>360 Build

  9. #108
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm not really looking for a struggle with this - I have the other set of cylinders and I'll probably just use them instead of turning this into a war to get them. Maybe a year or so of soaking might make something happen...
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

  10. #109
    Senior Member TOOLS1's Avatar
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    Just use an air chisel. Those pistons will be happy to move right along. That is how it is done at machine shops.
    TOOLS

  11. #110
    Senior Member ancientdad's Avatar
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    I'm always concerned about the repeated hammering at the rod when doing that, or hitting the piston with a hammer for that matter... always thought it was a bit of a risk
    Tom

    Ride along at the drag strip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20jFPazXlvU



    running points... because I'm too old for mysteries that begin with pushing

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