Had to happen sooner or later, more work to be done....
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  1. #1
    Super Moderator frogman79's Avatar
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    Had to happen sooner or later, more work to be done....

    Wise man once said "Take a compression tester WITH you when you go look at a bike you intend to buy." I didn't but I got it cheap so I can afford a few risks. Got it running, but never could make it idle. Checked everything, carbs cleaned 5-6 times. Timing checked dozen times, changed points, changed advance springs. Coils make arm go numb when you pull the caps when its running. Valves adjusted, cam chain adjusted. It just never sounded right, seamed like it had a ton less noise coming out of the left side then it did the right. Finally, went to the tool store because they were having a weekend sale picked up a timing light and a good compression gauge and a spark plug thread cleaner. Total cost, 35 bucks.

    Got home, took the alternator cover off, hooked up the light, fired up the bike. Timing was almost dead on, so the static timing was close enough. Put the cover back on and ran the thing around the block, was a nice day why not. Brought it back to the shop, pulled the plugs, cleaned the plug holes. Hooked up the gauge, twisted the throttle, hit the button, and OH MY GOD HOW IN THE HELL DOES IT EVEN RUN??????? It pulled 90 on the right and WHOOPING 30 on the left. Well, guess that explains that. Yes it got better after I added oil, even did it with the carbs off and got the same result.

    I guess I'm just used to riding worn out single cylinders, I thought it had all sorta power. So I let it cool off while I went to cool off and drink some beers and ponder. Next day, I tear into it and this is what I find.

    Followers on Left side ground to hell


    Followers on Right not too bad


    Left side of cam looks like sand paper


    Typical 360 center cam bearing wear, Chambers look ok will have to test for leakage.


    The pistons have about a 1mm clearance or more in the cylinders. You can see the rings from the top practically all the way down the stroke.




    Sorry camera wouldn't focus but the cylinders are in need of boring for sure



    Anyway, so it begins. I knew this was going to happen; the thing has 21678 miles on it. When I first changed the oil the filter was full of gunk and the pickup screen was covered with what looked like dog hair, possibly a rag or something so it was run for a while like that. It is a '74 and it had the recalls done so maybe someone left a present in the crankcase. The cam chain has chewed the casing up a bit too so I bet it tried to grenade before it had the slipper recall done.

    What I started with,


    Where it is now,



    I plan on getting really friendly with the specification part of the manual and a feeler gauge and various other measuring devices over the next few evenings. Hopefully, the bottom end will be salvageable.

    Thanks for watching.
    Franz >>> 450 build >>>360 Build

  2. #2
    leethal's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Go for it Franz, if nothing else these bikes are great to learn from BTW I wouldnt be surprised if your budget brand pressure guage was off the mark....the engine ran on 90 & 30 psi ?? is that even possible?!
    ...punks not dead...it just smells that way...

    ...XS650 SF...RD400 D...CB360 KO...CL450 K3...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Znabb's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Wow! Thats not good news but as Lee mentioned, great time to learn and you got many helpful people in the group.
    A thought when reading about the "rag" in the oil filter and cam/follower ware. When you rebuild the engine it might be wise to check the oil channels to the cam.

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  5. #4
    Super Moderator outobie's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    there was a guy that I used to race against who always talked lots of trash...
    One weekend he was talking much more smack than usual since he had just rebuilt his motor. it was running great in practice making gobs of power and generally walking the field. on Sunday, in his 3rd sprint race of the weekend, the motor grenaded spectacularly at the end of the front straight. weeks later we learned that he had been so meticulous in cleaning and wiping his parts off during assembly that he left lots of red lint from the shop towels on the bits that went back into the motor which all managed to accumulate and totally clog the oil pump pickup screen.

    this guy had invested a boatload of cash into this motor which was a total writeoff after one weekend due to one simple mistake.

    it was ok though because he was a dick and we all laughed at him
    CB350 K5 - Uber Café- Engine build 3
    CL350 K4 - Cafe build done waiting on final assembly
    CB350 K0 - Full restoration w/Hondaline bags & fairing
    SL350 K2 - Bubba Shobert flat track build on deck
    CB-1 400F - unrestored mint rider
    2012 Guzzi V7 Racer - Daily Ride

  6. #5
    Super Moderator frogman79's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Lee, thanks its been a fun toy thus far, can't wait to feel how it runs once I'm done fixing things. The gauge is good as far as I can tell, it pulled around 150 on my 7 year old lawnmower. That may be good or bad I dunno. As far as running with low compression, back when I was growing up, I had a friend with Honda trail 70 that had such leaky valves that you couldn't kick it over. We had to put it in 3rd gear and either push it or pull it till the head warmed up enough to swell the valve seats up and start running. It would do about 10-15 cold and around 50-60 hot. We fixed the valves and it would start first or second kick after that. I forget what the reading was after but it was way over 100.

    I wish I would have taken a pic of that stuff, I swear it looked like someone took hand full of dog hair and tossed it in one oil change. Wouldn't surprise me, the last person to wrench on this poor beast was a hammer mechanic. Looks like the only tools the guy had was a hammer, a pair of vice grips and some orange silicon.

    Oh well, I have 3 months of cold weather left may as well have fun.
    Franz >>> 450 build >>>360 Build

  7. #6
    Hippykid's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Dont we love these old bikes....

  8. #7
    Super Moderator frogman79's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Some days I do some days I well . I looked a few things over last night and most all the top end tolerances are out quite a ways. The cylinders seem to be close but I'm cheating on how I measure so they will be going to a machinist unless I find something else. I haven't got to measuring valves yet, I have to build a spring compressor. The Bad news of the day is the little end of the connecting rods tolerance are supposed to be between 15.016 to 15.034 mm and service limit is 15.07. Mine are 16 ish mm and yes they look pretty chewed up and worn out. Since those bearings are not force feed oil I have to expect that. The piston pins are worn out about the same I can imagine some of the noise was the bearings raising hell.

    So looks like a case breaking party is in order. I still have to take the sides off, and everything that goes in them. Not really looking forward to taking the crank apart but we shall see.

    As for verification, it looks to me like the cam rockers/followers are all identical. I have checked the manual and it only lists them as one part so I'm hoping that they are interchangeable?

    I guess other news, I got gifted some cheap metal and wood shelves so I can sorta kinda keep things organized and off the floor and the work bench. Anyone looking at those wood and metal shelves in Walmart just walk on by. They are complete pain in the butt to put together and they are made out of thin pressed sheet metal. They will serve their purpose here but I dunno how long they will last, I'm glad I didn't have to pay for them.

    Happy Hump Day
    Franz >>> 450 build >>>360 Build

  9. #8
    thomas.tc.young's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    here is what i used to remove the valve springs

    http://www.dansmc.com/valve.htm

    it worked really well, all you do is take a socket, some paper and a hammer and you can remove them in no time. It's in the second paragraph. Of course you'll need something more professional to get them back in later but that's a problem for later
    1969 CL350

  10. #9
    Super Moderator nigelrharris03's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    Ah yes! The old plug socket and hammer trick. Brilliant unless you let go and it flys everywhere

    As Bill so eloquently says "when every tool is a hammer"............................
    Nige
    Donate to 66Sprint's LSR Build http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/22-...d-attempt.html and http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-p...r-attempt.html
    CB450K0 Bomber 1967
    CB650Z 1978

  11. #10
    Super Moderator outobie's Avatar
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    Re: Had to happen sooner or later, Time to Rebuild the 360

    make sure you are wearing safety goggles for this. I stopped doing this in my younger days after loosing too many keepers as they fly across the room with great velocity!
    CB350 K5 - Uber Café- Engine build 3
    CL350 K4 - Cafe build done waiting on final assembly
    CB350 K0 - Full restoration w/Hondaline bags & fairing
    SL350 K2 - Bubba Shobert flat track build on deck
    CB-1 400F - unrestored mint rider
    2012 Guzzi V7 Racer - Daily Ride

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